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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Oct '15 11:52
    What is it China is after, trying to lay claim to a huge swath of ocean off the coast of the Philippines?

    The world seems to be of the opinion the waters they built up those artificial islands are in international waters and cannot just be taken over by China.

    What are they after? Is there oil there? Are they just doing it because the CAN?

    What if the US sends 3 or 4 carriers to the area, what then? Another series of sea battles?
  2. 30 Oct '15 12:31
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is it China is after, trying to lay claim to a huge swath of ocean off the coast of the Philippines?

    The world seems to be of the opinion the waters they built up those artificial islands are in international waters and cannot just be taken over by China.

    What are they after? Is there oil there? Are they just doing it because the CAN?

    What if the US sends 3 or 4 carriers to the area, what then? Another series of sea battles?
    Maybe they just enjoy building islands.

    Not to worry though, Obama knows what they are doing and why and I'm sure he is on top of things.
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Oct '15 13:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    Maybe they just enjoy building islands.

    Not to worry though, Obama knows what they are doing and why and I'm sure he is on top of things.
    Yeah, well, sarcasm doesn't help the situation and doesn't answer my question.
  4. 30 Oct '15 13:21
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is it China is after, trying to lay claim to a huge swath of ocean off the coast of the Philippines?

    The world seems to be of the opinion the waters they built up those artificial islands are in international waters and cannot just be taken over by China.

    What are they after? Is there oil there? Are they just doing it because the CAN?

    What if the US sends 3 or 4 carriers to the area, what then? Another series of sea battles?
    I believe oil is involved, but not the only concern. Much more important is regional power. It allows China to exert its influence in the region both psychologically and in actual fact.

    Some of the islands provide deep water bases for submarines and large ships that are not so easy to house closer to home. It also puts them close to where the action is.

    Think about the US's over seas bases. What are they for? China wants some too.

    Why would you object to China occupying the islands? Whatever reasons you give are possible reasons they want to occupy them.
    Why would the US want to stop them? Again, whatever reasons you give are possible reasons they want to occupy them.

    One thing is absolutely certain: none of the islands in question belong to the US.
  5. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Oct '15 16:02
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I believe oil is involved, but not the only concern. Much more important is regional power. It allows China to exert its influence in the region both psychologically and in actual fact.

    Some of the islands provide deep water bases for submarines and large ships that are not so easy to house closer to home. It also puts them close to where the action is ...[text shortened]... upy them.

    One thing is absolutely certain: none of the islands in question belong to the US.
    I think countries around there like the Philippines and Japan have more of a vested interest in stopping China than the US. They are the ones being indirectly threatened.

    This also may be a pre-cursor to attacking Taiwan.
  6. 30 Oct '15 17:12
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Yeah, well, sarcasm doesn't help the situation and doesn't answer my question.
    It's not rocket science. What has every collectivist on the face of the planet ever done in human history? They seek power and will do anything to extend such power. They have no other brain function really.
  7. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Oct '15 17:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is it China is after, trying to lay claim to a huge swath of ocean off the coast of the Philippines?

    The world seems to be of the opinion the waters they built up those artificial islands are in international waters and cannot just be taken over by China.

    What are they after? Is there oil there? Are they just doing it because the CAN?

    What if the US sends 3 or 4 carriers to the area, what then? Another series of sea battles?
    What can America possibly want in the South China Sea that would be worth sending 3 or 4 carriers after? If China wants to spend their money creating artificial islands, then let them. Maybe they are trying to train the crabs to work in their factories.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    30 Oct '15 17:51
    Originally posted by bill718
    What can America possibly want in the South China Sea that would be worth sending 3 or 4 carriers after? If China wants to spend their money creating artificial islands, then let them. Maybe they are trying to train the crabs to work in their factories.
    Our allies want us there. Treaties and such. For example, Japan cannot be left without USN presence.
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Oct '15 17:59
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Our allies want us there. Treaties and such. For example, Japan cannot be left without USN presence.
    OK...we'll send 1 sailor in a dinghy with a pair of binoculars to watch those wily Chinese create those artificial islands, and we fulfilled our obligation under the treaty. I'm sure those artificial islands will upset the balance of power in the world. Maybe we should send another sailor to make sure the great wall is not being used as a cover to make counterfeit cereal box tops.
  10. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    30 Oct '15 18:13
    Originally posted by bill718
    OK...we'll send 1 sailor in a dinghy with a pair of binoculars to watch those wily Chinese create those artificial islands, and we fulfilled our obligation under the treaty. I'm sure those artificial islands will upset the balance of power in the world. Maybe we should send another sailor to make sure the great wall is not being used as a cover to make counterfeit cereal box tops.
    What will that sailor do when the Chinese put artillery on the island and send huge fleets of fishing ships? What about when they drill for oil and put an air force base on it? That sailor will find it very uncomfortable when the J16s start doing low flybys over him. He might need some earplugs and a life jacket.
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    30 Oct '15 18:14
    Interestingly, the Chinese are homesteading these islands in the Lockean sense. But it's still illegal because the waters are owned already.
  12. 30 Oct '15 18:38
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I think countries around there like the Philippines and Japan have more of a vested interest in stopping China than the US. They are the ones being indirectly threatened.
    I suspect that the US feels threatened by just about any show of power by China. You are correct about the Philippines but I think you are confused about the location of Japan in relation to the South China Sea. Try Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.

    This also may be a pre-cursor to attacking Taiwan.
    Again, I suggest looking at a map before speculating wildly.

    Overall, China has been extremely guarded about showing too much power. They have to a very large extent underplayed their capabilities. The complete opposite of countries like North Korea or Iran.

    China is gradually beginning to get involved in international politics. They have until recently remained largely neutral internationally. Even now they are exerting influence primarily through economic means almost always with no political strings attached (unlike the US and the West).
  13. 30 Oct '15 18:40
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Interestingly, the Chinese are homesteading these islands in the Lockean sense. But it's still illegal because the waters are owned already.
    Who decides who owns them already?
  14. 30 Oct '15 18:50
    As always read more about it on Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea

    Fishing and shipping lanes are also important factors I missed.
    Vietnam currently occupies more of the Spratleys than anyone else.
  15. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Oct '15 18:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I suspect that the US feels threatened by just about any show of power by China. You are correct about the Philippines but I think you are confused about the location of Japan in relation to the South China Sea. Try Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.

    [b]This also may be a pre-cursor to attacking Taiwan.

    Again, I suggest looking at a map before speculat ...[text shortened]... gh economic means almost always with no political strings attached (unlike the US and the West).[/b]
    Well, the dam they are building in Africa is certainly coming with some political caveats.