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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    08 Apr '10 20:19
    Imagine being the black leader of a country where your people yearn for the days of being ruled by white racists:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08kristof.html

    “It would have been better if whites had continued to rule because the money would have continued to come,” added a neighbor, a 58-year-old farmer named Isaac. “It was better under Rhodesia. Then we could get jobs. Things were cheaper in stores. Now we have no money, no food.”

    Should white rule have continued in Rhodesia? More Zimbabweans would be alive today and they would be a lot happier and healthier.

    Does the international community have any obligation to relieve the misery and suffering of the people of Zimbabwe -- by force if necessary?

    If so, what country should be next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
  2. 08 Apr '10 20:31
    they do but the burden should be shared.

    African Union may be making noises about it and supplying troops sometimes but are they supplying to countries where they're not wanted? (not a rhetorical question; asking because maybe someone knows).
  3. 08 Apr '10 22:01
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Imagine being the black leader of a country where your people yearn for the days of being ruled by white racists:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08kristof.html

    “It would have been better if whites had continued to rule because the money would have continued to come,” added a neighbor, a 58-year-old farmer named Isaac. “It was better und ...[text shortened]... ecessary?

    If so, what country should be next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    a lesson to be learned for the folks in Zimbabwe. Just because your leader shares your race doesn't mean he's going to be a good leader. Just because your leader is of a different race doesn't mean he's going to be a bad leader.

    In a post-racial world, predominantly black populations will have no problem having a white leader and vice versa.
  4. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    08 Apr '10 22:20
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Imagine being the black leader of a country where your people yearn for the days of being ruled by white racists:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08kristof.html

    “It would have been better if whites had continued to rule because the money would have continued to come,” added a neighbor, a 58-year-old farmer named Isaac. “It was better und ...[text shortened]... ecessary?

    If so, what country should be next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    If some random 58-year-old farmer called Isaac says it, then it must be true.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Apr '10 22:23
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Imagine being the black leader of a country where your people yearn for the days of being ruled by white racists:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08kristof.html

    “It would have been better if whites had continued to rule because the money would have continued to come,” added a neighbor, a 58-year-old farmer named Isaac. “It was better und ...[text shortened]... ecessary?

    If so, what country should be next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Zimbabwe's problem is not that it's ruled by "blacks" but that it's ruled by a a particular brutal incompetent despot "black." If, say Nelson Mandela or, dare I say, Barack Obama, were leader of Zimbabwe instead of Mugabe, they wouldn't be in such bad shape. There are good leaders and bad leaders of all colors.

    Does the international community have any obligation to relieve the misery and suffering of the people of Zimbabwe -- by force if necessary?

    The only effective method of relieving the people of Zimbabwe is regime change... and you know how popular that concept will be with the World... well, unless perhaps it's led by someone other than the United States.
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    09 Apr '10 00:53
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Imagine being the black leader of a country where your people yearn for the days of being ruled by white racists:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/opinion/08kristof.html

    “It would have been better if whites had continued to rule because the money would have continued to come,” added a neighbor, a 58-year-old farmer named Isaac. “It was better und ...[text shortened]... ecessary?

    If so, what country should be next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    If the US could only repeal that pesky 13th Amendment, they'd be ample jobs for all blacks here, too.
  7. 09 Apr '10 01:14
    Originally posted by Melanerpes

    In a post-racial world, predominantly black populations will have no problem having a white leader and vice versa.
    The vice versa part of that statement already happens in the US across many city and state elections as well as the Big One. I don't see the first half ever becoming true. Black populations vote for black leaders no matter how miserable they are.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    09 Apr '10 01:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Black populations vote for black leaders no matter how miserable they are.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O%27Malley#Mayor_of_Baltimore

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore#Demographics
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    09 Apr '10 05:53
    Republics are preferable to dictatorships. It's not about race.
  10. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    09 Apr '10 06:10
    Originally posted by Palynka
    If some random 58-year-old farmer called Isaac says it, then it must be true.
    LMAO!

    Rec'd
  11. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    09 Apr '10 06:12
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    The vice versa part of that statement already happens in the US across many city and state elections as well as the Big One. I don't see the first half ever becoming true. Black populations vote for black leaders no matter how miserable they are.
    Because, as you said already once in these forums, "blacks are like little children."

    Isn't it true, Adolf?
  12. 09 Apr '10 06:38
    That the OP would blame Mugabe's incompetence on his blackness is very revealing.
  13. 09 Apr '10 06:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Should white rule have continued in Rhodesia? More Zimbabweans would be alive today and they would be a lot happier and healthier.
    Where does that conclusion from? Clearly the writer knows nothing of conditions in Rhodesia, South Africa under Apartheid, or even conditions in Zimbabwe today, nor does he understand the reasons for the current problems.
    Clearly Isaac has too short a memory to remember. In fact, assuming he's black, he probably wouldn't have a farm if white rule had continued. Even more likely, his habit of talking to international media about politically sensitive subjects would have resulted in him disappearing.

    I must also point out that Mugabe's power in the early years was largely based on the fact that everybody remembered the terrible times of Rhodesia, and all he had to do to get followers was to say "the white man wants your country back".
    The main reason he is still in power today, is there are far too many of his followers who have committed crimes of various sorts, and they cant afford to give up power as they would risk going to jail. The only real solution is some sort of amnesty system similar to what South Africa did (for the same reason).
  14. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    09 Apr '10 06:56
    Originally posted by Palynka
    If some random 58-year-old farmer called Isaac says it, then it must be true.
    Waiting for the train the other day, I was surprised to be told by an engineering student from Bulawayo (part of the Xhosa minority in Bulawayo, which I didn't know of) that his parents are doing fine and that there is money to be made once more, despite the, shall we say, structural inefficiencies of the current political set-up. All the more surprising since Matabeleland, of which Bulawayo is the capital, has occasionally been singled out for 'special treatment' of a distinctly uncuddly kind since 1984.

    Isaac doesn't sound like much of an entrepreneur. Maybe it's his age.

    The NY Times consistently runs negative stories about Africa, I've found. Recently I read an account of how the recently launched Bus Rapid Transit systems somehow compounds the legacy of apartheid ... Not to say that it's all shiny & happy around here, on the contrary, but there are very few credible news sources and very few stories are reported accurately, least of all by the NY Times. I'd advise all NY Times reporters to inform themselves properly or STFU. Well, I guess that goes for every journalist.

    Right now I'm bummed that Eskom got its World Bank loan, although I'm not sure how appropriate my reaction is.
  15. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    09 Apr '10 06:59
    Originally posted by spruce112358

    Does the international community have any obligation to relieve the misery and suffering of the people of Zimbabwe -- by force if necessary?
    Zimbabweans aren't suffering quite as much as is reported.

    They can sort out their own problems. Neither aid nor force is appropriate.

    Anyhow, their Chinese uncle is in town; seems he plans on staying.

    Why has the USA failed to garner the sort of influence China is enjoying in Africa?