Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 23 Jan '17 21:30 / 3 edits
    "I know you like to dilute the feminist message with racial issues."
    --Suzianne (23 January 2017, to Duchess64)

    Sadly, Suzianne seems willfully blind to the racism within American 'White Feminism'.
    Or she may like to assume that middle-to-upper class white women can speak for all women.

    It vexes me that the white American feminists here (who all oppose Donald Trump)
    apparently like to keep pretending that there were no significant differences in
    American women's attitudes toward Donald Trump. That's ignorant or dishonest.

    https://qz.com/#833003/election-2016-all-women-voted-overwhelmingly-for-clinton-except-the-white-ones/

    "American women voted overwhelmingly for Clinton, except the white ones."

    http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/donald-trump-women-voters-election/

    "Why Did So Many White Women Vote for Donald Trump?"

    Overall, 42% of American women voted for Donald Trump.
    53% (a majority) of white women voted for Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton (a white woman).
    62% of white women without college educations voted for Donald Trump.

    The supposed 'united' (sarcasm) opposition of American women toward Donald
    Trump was driven by non-white women (whom white women tend to marginalize).
    White women were a major factor in helping Donald Trump become US President.

    While I have learned not to expect much honest self-critical analysis from
    American 'White Feminists' (who tend to be blind to their own everyday racism),
    I would say that the white American women who oppose Donald Trump
    should take a hard look at themselves and ask why most white American
    women voted for Donald Trump.

    Does that mean that most white American women perceive Donald Trump,
    an overt sexist who's boasted of his sexual assaults, as less threatening
    to them than the non-white people that he likes to demonize?
  2. 23 Jan '17 21:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It bothers me that the white American feminists here (who all oppose Donald Trump)
    apparently like to keep pretending that there were no significant differences
    in American women's attitudes toward Donald Trump.

    https://qz.com/#833003/election-2016-all-women-voted-overwhelmingly-for-clinton-except-the-white-ones/

    "American women voted overwhelming ...[text shortened]... xual assaults, as less threatening
    to them than the non-white people that he likes to demonize?
    Just goes to show they hated Hillary more than Trump.
  3. 23 Jan '17 21:34
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Just goes to show they hated Hillary more than Trump.
    I know more women who hated Hillary than liked her.
  4. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    23 Jan '17 21:52
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It bothers me that the white American feminists here (who all oppose Donald Trump)
    apparently like to keep pretending that there were no significant differences
    in American women's attitudes toward Donald Trump.

    https://qz.com/#833003/election-2016-all-women-voted-overwhelmingly-for-clinton-except-the-white-ones/

    "American women voted overwhelming ...[text shortened]... xual assaults, as less threatening
    to them than the non-white people that he likes to demonize?
    Tone deaf as ever, huh Dutchy?
    If a woman--- or man--- has truly embraced the feminine doctrines, neither of the candidates could have been considered a viable candidate.
    As is the case in literally every election in the previous five decades, the choice came down to the lesser of two evils.
    With Trump, there was very little masking; what you see, you're going to get, very little variation.
    Decidedly not feminist-friendly, unabashedly.
    The Crook, however, spoke the language but without an authentic accent: she'd only learned a few words along the way--- just enough to ask where the bathrooms are, how much some trinket cost.
    She affected the culture, customs of whomever she was near, a chameleon without the ability/need to blink.
    Eventually, even those blinded by feminism saw through her costumes and voted their consciences.
    Good for them, for us.
  5. 23 Jan '17 22:11
    Originally posted by whodey
    I know more women who hated Hillary than liked her.
    That's because people tend to surround themselves with likeminded people
  6. 23 Jan '17 22:15
    For the same reason most Donald Trump voters voted Donald Trump: they had friends, relatives and other people in their social circle who voted Donald Trump.
  7. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    23 Jan '17 22:17
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    ... (who tend to be blind to their own everyday racism) ...
  8. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    23 Jan '17 22:23
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    For the same reason most Donald Trump voters voted Donald Trump: they had friends, relatives and other people in their social circle who voted Donald Trump.
    Clearly, you don't know anyone who voted for Trump--- or perhaps you're simply tone deaf to their vibes.
    The overwhelming majority of people that I know who voted for Trump did so all on their own, regardless of the flack received from anyone around them.
    They are, for the most part, individualistic, patriotic, intelligent and thoughtful people who could ascertain the issues at stake and articulate the same with confidence borne on understanding and a proper scale of values.
    The folks voting for The Crook?
    Couldn't speak in terms of anything but emotionalism, fear and hate.
    None of them spoke of patriotism, of love of country, of values, but instead, they barked along the talking points of what they heard about Trump.
    Not from Trump himself, of course, but from the teleprompter led losers who spewed their vile lies and spread their fearmongering crap far and wide.

    Asked any of the folks voting for The Crook one simple question: :what has she done for anyone?"
    To a person, none could think of a single thing.

    Bet you still can't.
  9. 23 Jan '17 22:44
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    That's because people tend to surround themselves with likeminded people
    Usually you talk to people at work most of the day. That is if you have a job.
  10. 23 Jan '17 22:50
    Isn't it a bit sexist to believe that women should have voted for Hillary?
  11. 23 Jan '17 23:03
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Clearly, you don't know anyone who voted for Trump--- or perhaps you're simply tone deaf to their vibes.
    The overwhelming majority of people that I know who voted for Trump did so all on their own, regardless of the flack received from anyone around them.
    They are, for the most part, individualistic, patriotic, intelligent and thoughtful people who could ...[text shortened]... she done for anyone?"
    To a person, none could think of a single thing.

    Bet you still can't.
    Interesting. Judging by this forum, one might be tempted to think Trump voters are raving, senile conspiracy lunatics with a rather tenuous grasp of reality. Where did you find these intelligent and thoughtful Trump voters?
  12. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    23 Jan '17 23:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I know you like to dilute the feminist message with racial issues."
    --Suzianne (23 January 2017, to Duchess64)

    Sadly, Suzianne seems willfully blind to the racism within American 'White Feminism'.
    Or she may like to assume that middle-to-upper class white women can speak for all women.

    It vexes me that the white American feminists here (who all o ...[text shortened]... xual assaults, as less threatening
    to them than the non-white people that he likes to demonize?
    Or maybe they just don't believe the narrative.
  13. 24 Jan '17 02:48 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Sleepyguy's another racist troll.

    I have noticed that some American women like to exaggerate Donald Trump's unpopularity among American women.
    I care more about factual accuracy and intellectual honesty than about any political cause,
    so I am pointing out that it's ignorant or dishonest to pretend that only few women support Donald Trump.

    It's untrue that President Trump has a popular mandate from the American people in their entirety.
    But it seems true that President Trump has a popular mandate from both white men and white women in the USA.

    I wish that Suzianne, for instance, were capable of honestly facing all the painful and
    uncomfortable questions and implications of Donald Trump's election as US President.
    But Suzianne has shown me that she has quite a closed mind whenever such issues
    come too close to her prejudices. For instance, Suzianne likes to imply that she always
    would listen seriously to women if they complain about being oppressed by men.
    But, when I have brought up the issue, Suzianne has refused to listen to or take seriously
    the voices of Palestinian women (including Christians) who complain about being oppressed
    by the Israeli men who rule them at gunpoint. Suzianne would side with the racist Israelis.

    "I thought we (Americans) were better than this (electing Donald Trump as President. I was wrong."
    --Suzianne (posted in similar words shortly after the 2016 US Presidential election)

    So Suzianne seemed to have conceded that she had an inadequate understanding of other Americans.
    I did not predict Donald Trump's election as the US President, but I was not shocked by it.
    I expected the election to be close--hinging upon several critical states--and I regard
    Donald Trump's victory as no more than a moderate surprise.

    It seems to me that Suzianne underestimates (among other things) the depths of racism in the USA.
    As a white woman, her life has not been directly harmed by racism. Suzianne has shown
    that she's ready to support *highly publicized* causes such as '"Black Lives Matter".
    But she also seems ignorant of and insensitive to the many kinds of racism that are
    not captured in the spotlight of the (white-dominated) mainstream US media.

    What's wrong with 'White Feminism'? (Again, not all white women who are feminists
    are 'White Feminists'.) For one thing, 'White Feminists' seem to take a condescending
    position of 'where white women lead, non-white women should follow', telling non-white
    women to trust that white women are acting in their best interests against sexism.
    But most white women voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election, while not many non-white women did.
    Why should non-white women trust that white women must know what's best for them?
    Why should any naively trusting non-white women not feel betrayed by white women?
    Indeed, many non-white women suspect that what privileged 'Whjte Feminists' really want
    is to end sexism against themselves while keeping their racial privilege as white people.

    Now 'White Feminists' may smugly believe that non-white women have nowhere else to go.
    Given a choice between the virulent racism and sexism of right-wing white men and the
    less overt condescending racism and hypocrisy of 'White Feminists', non-white women
    have to choose to support 'White Feminists' as the lesser evil. But non-white women
    don't have to support either 'evil'; they can stay home and opt out of the process.

    Unfortunately, I suspect that Suzianne will take the easier way out and keep on fighting
    against President Trump and the Republican Party at essentially a 'bumper sticker' level.
  14. 24 Jan '17 02:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Sleepyguy's another racist troll.

    I have noticed that some American women like to exaggerate Donald Trump's unpopularity among American women.
    I care more about factual accuracy and intellectual honesty than about any political cause,
    so I am pointing out that it's ignorant or dishonest to pretend that only few women support Donald Trump.

    It's untr ...[text shortened]... ut it seems true that President Trump has a popular mandate from both white men and white women.
    The mandste was no to Hillary.

    Althogh I would not mind deportations, a wall and more high paying jobs.

    Oh yeah, reversal of all Obama mandates as well as Clinton's mandate kicking the American people off public land.
  15. 24 Jan '17 04:35
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Isn't it a bit sexist to believe that women should have voted for Hillary?
    Sarah Palin was picked as his running mate because John McCain
    hoped to discourage women from voting for him. (sarcasm)