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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 08 Aug '12 15:22
    Let's say that a person does not want to be married, but wants to live with a person of the opposite sex. In the US and other countries once a couple lives together for a period of time, the couple is legally married.

    Why does the government have the right to force people into marriage? Seems rather strange to me.

    I believe the origins of common law marriage was due to the fact that priests would travel the country and therefore unavailable to marry people. It was assumed that the couple wanted to get married, but could not find a priest. That is no longer the case today. You don't even need a priest today. So why carry on the tradition?

    Why have common law marriages? Why give that power to the state?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Aug '12 16:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Let's say that a person does not want to be married, but wants to live with a person of the opposite sex. In the US and other countries once a couple lives together for a period of time, the couple is legally married.

    Why does the government have the right to force people into marriage? Seems rather strange to me.

    I believe the origins of common law ...[text shortened]... carry on the tradition?

    Why have common law marriages? Why give that power to the state?
    First of all, the vast majority of states no longer recognize common law marriages.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage#United_States

    In all states that do recognize common law marriages, intent or agreement to be married is a necessary element.

    http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

    Intent to not be married, in all states, would clearly negate any possible common law marriage.

    So, don't worry, the state isn't forcing anyone to be married.
  3. 08 Aug '12 16:18 / 2 edits
    I live in one of those 10 states.

    But it is nice to know that you must enter into a common law marriage. I don't think many people know this. There should courses on this matter in high schools so that people know. Thanks for the education.

    Oops, just remembered on thing:

    What if I want to be married in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of the US government. According to the link, I would be hoodwinked into officially recognized marriage because I live in Oklahoma. Why is that right? Why should the government have such power?
  4. 08 Aug '12 16:46
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I live in one of those 10 states.

    But it is nice to know that you must enter into a common law marriage. I don't think many people know this. There should courses on this matter in high schools so that people know. Thanks for the education.

    Oops, just remembered on thing:

    What if I want to be married in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of t ...[text shortened]... age because I live in Oklahoma. Why is that right? Why should the government have such power?
    "What if I want to be married in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of the US government."

    It's controlled by the states and administered by county.

    It's the reverse of what you imply. You have to do certain things, to be officially married.

    You can do anything you want to signify a marriage in the eyes of God, including having a minister do their standard wedding (although I doubt they will) but if you don't do what the state requires then you aren't officially married. More than likely the minister would want, at a minimum, to declare you married "in the eyes of God" and you and your partner and the minister would not sign a state-issued marriage certificate.

    Example for Oklahoma where you live:

    "No person shall enter into or contract the marriage relation, nor shall any person perform or solemnize the ceremony of any marriage in this state without a license being first issued by the judge or clerk of the district court, of some county in this state, authorizing the marriage between the persons named in such license. "

    There are other state requirements like no incest, minimum ages, etc.

    http://statutes.laws.com/oklahoma/Title43
  5. 08 Aug '12 16:49
    Originally posted by JS357
    "What if I want to be married in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of the US government."

    It's controlled by the states and administered by county.

    It's the reverse of what you imply. You have to do certain things, to be officially married.

    You can do anything you want to signify a marriage in the eyes of God, including having a minister do their ...[text shortened]... ements like no incest, minimum ages, etc.

    http://statutes.laws.com/oklahoma/Title43
    Go back and read the link given. In the state of Oklahoma if you cohabitate for a certain number of years and you claim to be married at all, then you are married according to the state.

    Why should my religious practices be controlled by the state?
  6. 08 Aug '12 16:55
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Go back and read the link given. In the state of Oklahoma if you cohabitate for a certain number of years and you claim to be married at all, then you are married according to the state.

    Why should my religious practices be controlled by the state?
    I'm not finding what you say is there. Please be more specific.
  7. 08 Aug '12 17:00
    Originally posted by JS357
    I'm not finding what you say is there. Please be more specific.
    I'll just try to describe what I'm talking about:

    I'm a Christian who believes I must first marry a woman before I enter into a monogomous long term relationship and cohabitate. I am only getting married because my religious beliefs instruct me that this is what I must do.

    Can I do this in the state of Oklahoma? Can I do this and not enter a legal contract because I do not wish to enter a legal contract, simply a religious contract. I am told that there is a separation of church and state, therefore I should be able to enter into a religious contract without entering a legal contract.
  8. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    08 Aug '12 17:15
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I'll just try to describe what I'm talking about:

    I'm a Christian who believes I must first marry a woman before I enter into a monogomous long term relationship and cohabitate. I am only getting married because my religious beliefs instruct me that this is what I must do.

    Can I do this in the state of Oklahoma? Can I do this and not enter a legal co ...[text shortened]... refore I should be able to enter into a religious contract without entering a legal contract.
    Why can't you just give her a pinky-swear and a smooch under the old oak tree? I don't get it.
  9. 08 Aug '12 17:16
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Why can't you just give her a pinky-swear and a smooch under the old oak tree? I don't get it.
    That's because you don't have the same understanding of the Bible as me.
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    08 Aug '12 17:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    That's because you don't have the same understanding of the Bible as me.
    OK, so enlighten me.
  11. 08 Aug '12 17:46
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    OK, so enlighten me.
    According to the Bible you are to be married before you have sexual relations, sex outside of marriage is evil. My religion requires me to marry to have sexual relations, but the government decides it needs to sanction my religious practices that relates to what I do in my bedroom.
  12. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    08 Aug '12 18:05
    Originally posted by Eladar
    According to the Bible you are to be married before you have sexual relations, sex outside of marriage is evil. My religion requires me to marry to have sexual relations, but the government decides it needs to sanction my religious practices that relates to what I do in my bedroom.
    OK yeah I get THAT, but . . . I guess the question then is what constitutes a religious marriage? If you have a private ceremony, wherein you make your vows before God etc, why does that not satisfy the biblical requirement?
  13. 08 Aug '12 18:12
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    OK yeah I get THAT, but . . . I guess the question then is what constitutes a religious marriage? If you have a private ceremony, wherein you make your vows before God etc, why does that not satisfy the biblical requirement?
    My beliefs require a preacher or pastor to do the ceremony. After that we'd profess to be married, therefore would fall under common law marriage in Oklahoma.
  14. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    08 Aug '12 18:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Let's say that a person does not want to be married, but wants to live with a person of the opposite sex. In the US and other countries once a couple lives together for a period of time, the couple is legally married.

    Why does the government have the right to force people into marriage? Seems rather strange to me.

    I believe the origins of common law ...[text shortened]... carry on the tradition?

    Why have common law marriages? Why give that power to the state?
    It appears to me that you are confusing several issues.

    The government is not forcing you to marry. A common law marriage is recognized because of the actions of the parties. The reason why the government steps in, is to control the sharing of assets in the event of a dissolution of the relationship. Often it is the case that one party suffers because the title deed/business/house etc is on one party's name.

    It is a simple matter. If you act like you are committed for a period of time then all the government is doing is forcing you to honour your commitments by sharing the assets equitably, if/when you decide to separate.

    Whether you are a Christian or not, God recognizes a marriage when two people [like above], act like they are married.
    - you commit yourselves to each other
    - you have sex
    - you have kids, etc
    God does not care about a document called a marriage certificate. Neither is a priest or pastor or govt official required to marry people in the eyes of God.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Aug '12 18:18
    Originally posted by Eladar
    My beliefs require a preacher or pastor to do the ceremony. After that we'd profess to be married, therefore would fall under common law marriage in Oklahoma.
    I'm sure if you both signed an affidavit stating that you specifically intended not to be married under state law but only to be married under religious law, the state would not recognize your civil marriage.