Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    23 Oct '16 14:09
    I usually find myself torn between the labour and conservative parties, but these days I'm swinging towards the tories (which I don't like) but I just can't possible think of voting for Corbyn as prime minister. He should have just stepped down after the EU referendum and left the door open for someone younger and fresher.
  2. Joined
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    23 Oct '16 18:12
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I usually find myself torn between the labour and conservative parties, but these days I'm swinging towards the tories (which I don't like) but I just can't possible think of voting for Corbyn as prime minister. He should have just stepped down after the EU referendum and left the door open for someone younger and fresher.
    If anybody in Britain seriously thinks Labour can get back in power with Corbyn in charge they live in cloud cuckoo land .
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 10:53
    Originally posted by phil3000
    If anybody in Britain seriously thinks Labour can get back in power with Corbyn in charge they live in cloud cuckoo land .
    We are not backing a greyhound.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 10:54
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I usually find myself torn between the labour and conservative parties, but these days I'm swinging towards the tories (which I don't like) but I just can't possible think of voting for Corbyn as prime minister. He should have just stepped down after the EU referendum and left the door open for someone younger and fresher.
    There is usually no difference between Tories and New Labour, apart from cosmetics. With Corbyn there is a difference, That may explain why your right wing values are drawing you to a party that has dismantled this country and is stamping on its remains.
  5. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 10:581 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    There is usually no difference between Tories and New Labour, apart from cosmetics. With Corbyn there is a difference, That may explain why your right wing values are drawing you to a party that has dismantled this country and is stamping on its remains.
    I think the British people think differently about Corbyn, Tories are on 47% while labour is stuck in the high twenties. That's unprecedented and it shows that he is disliked.
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 11:065 edits
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I think the British people think differently about Corbyn have done, Tories are on 47% while labour is stuck in the high twenties. That's unprecedented and it shows that he is disliked.
    No that is not a fact - an empty phrase. It is a poll and reflects the state of British politics, not a rational state of affairs. People will dislike Corbyn because he is the subject of a well documented campaign of vilification.

    I am not focused on personalities so much as policies. Tory policies (the ones we can identify in the rubble) are disastrous and we need an alternative to austerity with all it implies. We also need an alternative to the neoliberal economic model. Only Corbyn is offering to adddress these needs.

    Where I may have to differ with Corbyn is on Brexit, because the evidence is growing of the harm this will do.

    Try this article if you never want to sleep again. If nothing else it may help to puncture your ignorance about the true impact of Thatcherism and subsequent neoliberal economic policies from both the Tories and New Labour.

    http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/?utm_source=sumome&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sumome_share

    This country is drowning in its political ignorance and it needs to wake up. If people cling to Corbyn, maybe he is a place holder until we find some decent fresh political leadership. We will not get that from the current range of rivals. At the least he is outstanding for his integrity and consistency.
  7. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 11:241 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    outstanding for his integrity and consistency.
    Yes, his principled backing of the Remain camp was so noble.....
  8. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 11:46
    Originally posted by finnegan
    There is usually no difference between Tories and New Labour, apart from cosmetics. With Corbyn there is a difference, That may explain why your right wing values are drawing you to a party that has dismantled this country and is stamping on its remains.
    Same way with the GOP and DNC in the US.

    It is just the illusion of choice.
  9. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 11:521 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    No that is not a fact - an empty phrase. It is a poll and reflects the state of British politics, not a rational state of affairs. People will dislike Corbyn because he is the subject of a well documented campaign of vilification.

    I am not focused on personalities so much as policies. Tory policies (the ones we can identify in the rubble) are disastrous ...[text shortened]... m the current range of rivals. At the least he is outstanding for his integrity and consistency.
    I think the Labour party does just as much vilification of the Tories, considering that is what politics is... I doubt Corbyn is the victim of some kind of conspiracy to keep him out of power. He's unpopular and uninspiring, plain and simple.

    I think the EU needs a serious wake up call, regarding several things, but I'm not going to debate that now. I wish we could stay, but I have to draw a line in the sand against bureaucracy somewhere.

    If Corbyn truly had "integrity" he would have resigned after the EU referendum, as he (like David Cameron) clearly failed to mobilize labour voters to the remain side. Instead he clung to power, which I detest.
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 11:551 edit
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Yes, his principled backing of the Remain camp was so noble.....
    Corbyn's position on Remain was completely open and honest as you know very well. Those who attribute to Corbyn the personal power to overcome all the forces favouring a Brexit result are wilfully misrepresenting things. Brexit was Cameron's disaster, not Corbyn's. In addition it is apparent that Corbyn was always correct to feel that natural Labour voters were swinging to the Brexit side.

    There is lots wrong with the EU but this is not always about principles. Empirically, we are where we are and Brexit is a massive self inflicted disaster for Britain's economy. Read the article I cited above.

    As it happens, I am concerned today that his acceptance of the referendum result may not be to his advantage. A lot happens in politics and we need more flexibility.
  11. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 12:08
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Corbyn's position on Remain was completely open and honest as you know very well. Those who attribute to Corbyn the personal power to overcome all the forces favouring a Brexit result are wilfully misrepresenting things. Brexit was Cameron's disaster, not Corbyn's. In addition it is apparent that Corbyn was always correct to feel that natural Labour voters ...[text shortened]... ndum result may not be to his advantage. A lot happens in politics and we need more flexibility.
    I know it will be painful in the short term but there are so many faults with the EU that we cannot turn a blind eye to anymore. They use the single market as a bullying tactic to pass through their normally untenable positions on other issues.
  12. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 13:26
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I know it will be painful in the short term but there are so many faults with the EU that we cannot turn a blind eye to anymore. They use the single market as a bullying tactic to pass through their normally untenable positions on other issues.
    Death is painful in the short term. Then you're dead.
  13. Joined
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    24 Oct '16 13:341 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Corbyn's position on Remain was completely open and honest as you know very well. Those who attribute to Corbyn the personal power to overcome all the forces favouring a Brexit result are wilfully misrepresenting things. Brexit was Cameron's disaster, not Corbyn's. In addition it is apparent that Corbyn was always correct to feel that natural Labour voters ...[text shortened]... ndum result may not be to his advantage. A lot happens in politics and we need more flexibility.
    He said he wanted to remain when he really wanted to leave. It's called lying.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Oct '16 13:37
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    He said he wanted to remain when he really wanted to leave. It's called lying.
    Rubbish. Not worth debating with that Sun level misrepresentation.
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
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    24 Oct '16 14:01
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I think the Labour party does just as much vilification of the Tories, considering that is what politics is... I doubt Corbyn is the victim of some kind of conspiracy to keep him out of power. He's unpopular and uninspiring, plain and simple.

    I think the EU needs a serious wake up call, regarding several things, but I'm not going to debate that now. I ...[text shortened]... failed to mobilize labour voters to the remain side. Instead he clung to power, which I detest.
    If Corbyn is 'uninspiring' how would you describe Theresa May?
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