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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    13 May '13 14:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I stand corrected. In that case it was an awful oversight by the responsible personnel at the consulate.
    It's hard to say based on just one side of the story; the Consulate isn't allowed to give legal advice. One could say that they should have directed her to a local attorney, but she was an alleged rape victim with injuries and not promptly going to the hospital and police might have been used to impeach her credibility.
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    Land of Free
    13 May '13 15:34 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It's hard to say based on just one side of the story; the Consulate isn't allowed to give legal advice. One could say that they should have directed her to a local attorney, but she was an alleged rape victim with injuries and not promptly going to the hospital and police might have been used to impeach her credibility.
    I would not wish her calamity on my worst enemy but from a timeline of all stories concerning her plight I would say she has found some closure by having channel 7 run her story. Between 2011 and now there's been no update on any success suing the consulate. If you look at the travel advisory to UAE given by the Australian Government, you probably wouldn't go. Seriously. Her legal team I think were unable to sue her former employer, the hotel chain she worked for, for medical expenses, so the Channel 7 story may well have been the last attempt by her legal team to get some money for her ordeal. Channel 7 ran this story in the past week. Previous print news stories covering this case peter out around June. 2011.
  3. Subscriber kmax87
    Land of Free
    13 May '13 15:59
    Originally posted by kmax87
    I would not wish her calamity on my worst enemy but from a timeline of all stories concerning her plight I would say she has found some closure by having channel 7 run her story. Between 2011 and now there's been no update on any success suing the consulate. If you look at the travel advisory to UAE given by the Australian Government, you probably wouldn't g ...[text shortened]... in the past week. Previous print news stories covering this case peter out around June. 2011.
    No doubt some will say my response is callous, but worker beware. Come to the UAE and earn fantastic wages, but if you've read your Australian travel advisory, you as a Westerner may be a victim of A terrorist atttack. You may be imprisoned for over the counter medications you bought in Australia. Alcohol is illegal even though your hotel bends the rules. Be aware of the small details of local customs such as rules concerning adultery. While not comprehensive in every way, if the travel advisory was not enough to curb your enthusiasm and make you just a little skeptical about this apparent free-lunch, well I do have this curiously domed free standing structure in Sydney Harbour you might want to consider putting an option on.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 May '13 16:34
    Originally posted by kmax87
    No doubt some will say my response is callous, but worker beware. Come to the UAE and earn fantastic wages, but if you've read your Australian travel advisory, you as a Westerner may be a victim of A terrorist atttack. You may be imprisoned for over the counter medications you bought in Australia. Alcohol is illegal even though your hotel bends the rules. Be ...[text shortened]... omed free standing structure in Sydney Harbour you might want to consider putting an option on.
    Worker beware doesn't excuse the behavior against that worker. Certainly a white guy in a suit walking down the street of a Baltimore slum at 2 AM while flashing a gold watch and with hundreds sticking out of his pockets is a bad idea, but that doesn't in any way excuse the thugs who mug and rob from him.

    If the UAE's laws are unconscionable and human rights violations, then they are so whether others should be aware of them or not.
  5. Subscriber kmax87
    Land of Free
    13 May '13 16:38
    Originally posted by sh76
    Worker beware doesn't excuse the behavior against that worker. Certainly a white guy in a suit walking down the street of a Baltimore slum at 2 AM while flashing a gold watch and with hundreds sticking out of his pockets is a bad idea, but that doesn't in any way excuse the thugs who mug and rob from him.

    If the UAE's laws are unconscionable and human rights violations, then they are so whether others should be aware of them or not.
    But the question always becomes are they enforceable human rights violations, and should people have enough of a sense of self preservation not to venture out into the world with all the werewithall of a 5 year old?
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    13 May '13 16:50
    Originally posted by sh76
    Worker beware doesn't excuse the behavior against that worker. Certainly a white guy in a suit walking down the street of a Baltimore slum at 2 AM while flashing a gold watch and with hundreds sticking out of his pockets is a bad idea, but that doesn't in any way excuse the thugs who mug and rob from him.

    If the UAE's laws are unconscionable and human rights violations, then they are so whether others should be aware of them or not.
    While I agree that adultery laws are human rights violations they do not only exist in the Muslim world. In fact, 24 States in the US still criminalize adultery. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm

    The UAE has an extreme penalty for rape; it has retained a high burden of proof for this crime based on ideas that we feel are outmoded. Does that rate as an egregious human rights violation?
  7. Subscriber kmax87
    Land of Free
    13 May '13 17:03
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The UAE has an extreme penalty for rape; it has retained a high burden of proof for this crime based on ideas that we feel are outmoded. Does that rate as an egregious human rights violation?
    Just how exactly are they ever going get 4 witnesses to corroborate a claim of rape though, given that rape usually only needs one repressed demented individual to inflict their 'charms'?
  8. 13 May '13 17:19
    These are the laws put into place by the people who live there. It is as simple as that. It means the laws are by definition moral and appropriate and no one should question them. I can't believe how insensitive people are when it comes to Muslims and their desire to put into practice their peaceful and moral religion.
  9. 13 May '13 17:36
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I stand corrected. In that case it was an awful oversight by the responsible personnel at the consulate.
    The consulate, it seems, may have been less than helpful, but ultimately our safety is our own responsibility, no matter where we go.

    Westerners have no right to presume the cultural norms or legal standards of foreign nations will conform to their expectations.
  10. 13 May '13 18:49
    Walk up the Edgware road on a summer evening , plenty of high ranking Gulf arabs coming out of the Victoria Casino in the company of nice looking ...........
  11. 13 May '13 18:55
    No moral judgement intended, even though I've never paid for company , but then again I've never jailed any one whose been raped.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 May '13 18:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    While I agree that adultery laws are human rights violations they do not only exist in the Muslim world. In fact, 24 States in the US still criminalize adultery. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm

    The UAE has an extreme penalty for rape; it has retained a high burden of proof for this crime based on ideas that we feel are outmoded. Does that rate as an egregious human rights violation?
    I have no problem with their high burden of proof, as long as that is applied to keep people out of prison (or alive, as the case may be). If they apply that to put people in prison (i.e., prove it to this extent or we'll assume the sex was consensual and put you in prison) then that standard of proof is reprehensible.
  13. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    13 May '13 19:37 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    No, seriously. Why?

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/17094076/abandoned/

    Dubai is being promoted as a luxury high-class paradise in the desert, but the reality is brutally different, as Australian Alicia Gali discovered. Gali took a job in the UAE with one of the world’s biggest hotel chains, Starwood. What happened next mak ...[text shortened]... having illicit sex outside marriage, and thrown in a filthy jail cell for eight months.
    I share your views about this situation, but to answer your question, I believe there has not been more outrage to this incident because there have been so many situations of this kind in the Middle East in the last 10-20 years, people may have simply become desensitized to it. Women have fewer rights in most of the middle east, and this type of behavior, while not encouraged, is at least tolerated.
  14. 15 May '13 23:36
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    While I agree that adultery laws are human rights violations they do not only exist in the Muslim world. In fact, 24 States in the US still criminalize adultery. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm

    The UAE has an extreme penalty for rape; it has retained a high burden of proof for this crime based on ideas that we feel are outmoded. Does that rate as an egregious human rights violation?
    when a rape victim cannot get justice, yes it is a violation of human rights. exactly in what situation will a rape victim get 4 males to testify on her behalf that they witnessed the raping?


    one must understand the risks of going to the uae. i know that i can be kidnapped in colombia, so i don't go there. if i need to go to some third world country, i pack my own water. i check my shoes for poisonous crap if i am in the australian outback. that being said, short of giving the uae a bad publicity, sadly nothing else can be done.
  15. 16 May '13 00:53
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    They may never catch her rapist in NY, but at least she isn't in jail for adultery.