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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 14 Apr '09 03:59 / 1 edit
    America, to ancient, Soviet-era socialists from the old countries, stands for the following acronym:


    "Against Modern Economic Realities I Can't Argue"

    Whoever said dinosaurs were extinct anyway?
    Soviet-era chess players are behind the times by only a decade or three.

    Reasonable capitalists that try to use reasonable logic with them are called names or their points ignored. I have thus had to learn the hard way that you can't teach old dogmatic socialists new tricks.
  2. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    14 Apr '09 07:38
    Originally posted by eljefejesus

    "Against Modern Economic Realities I Can't Argue"
    Maybe if capitalists started speaking in coherent sentences, the old world communists might be able to follow what they're saying?
  3. 14 Apr '09 07:53
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Maybe if capitalists started speaking in coherent sentences, the old world communists might be able to follow what they're saying?
    Only under the condition that it not contradict socialist ideology.
  4. 14 Apr '09 08:09
    Don't get me wrong, debating pre-1980's ideologies is groovy.
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    14 Apr '09 08:18
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Only under the condition that it not contradict socialist ideology.
    Do you know what communism is?

    Do you know Hegel? Do you know dialectics?
    Do you disagree that a worker-boss relationship creates friction?

    What do you reckon the end situation of that friction is?
    Please explain the difference between an anarchistic State and a laissez-faire capitalist State.

    Then we'll discuss which ideology is progressive compared to the political / financial situation at present.
  6. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    14 Apr '09 08:19
    i feel you dude, like whoo. you just blew my capitalist mind.
  7. Standard member StTito
    The Mullverine
    14 Apr '09 08:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Do you know what communism is?

    Do you know Hegel? Do you know dialectics?
    Do you disagree that a worker-boss relationship creates friction?

    What do you reckon the end situation of that friction is?
    Please explain the difference between an anarchistic State and a laissez-faire capitalist State.

    Then we'll discuss which ideology is progressive compared to the political / financial situation at present.
    of course he does not.
  8. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    14 Apr '09 08:38
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Don't get me wrong, debating pre-1980's ideologies is groovy.
    Why'd you bring it up?
  9. 14 Apr '09 08:39
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Maybe if capitalists started speaking in coherent sentences, the old world communists might be able to follow what they're saying?
    he is an american, do you expect him to be coherent? odds are he is one of the 96% americans that can't point kabul on a map.
  10. 14 Apr '09 08:53
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Do you know what communism is?

    Do you know Hegel? Do you know dialectics?
    Do you disagree that a worker-boss relationship creates friction?

    What do you reckon the end situation of that friction is?
    Please explain the difference between an anarchistic State and a laissez-faire capitalist State.

    Then we'll discuss which ideology is progressive compared to the political / financial situation at present.
    I don't know him personally 8-p , but I have studied his philosophy (thesis - antithesis, dialectics, etc)... I've also had to read Marx more than enough times and I believe I wasted too many classes in oudated philosophies of the past.

    Perhaps you can argue that socialism has a future in influencing the mixed-economy nature and balance of modern States (though I believe that developing nations in particular must really be more capitalist to grow quicker and reduce poverty)...

    In a capitalist system like the US, there is such a thing as at-will employment in which worker-boss relationships are voluntary. Go work for someone else if you want, or start doing something for yourself to make money. As for the end stage situation, I don't believe violence to be the answer, do you?

    An anarchist state has no rule of law. A laissez-faire capitalist State has well-established rules of the game by which the government aims to minimize involvement or interfering in the economy. Let people find their double-coincidences of want, let them enter into enforceable contracts, let them follow their own self interests as long as they don't violate the rules of the game. To quote Adam Smith "every man, as long as he does not violate the rules of nature, is left perfectly free to pursue his own interests, his own way." As opposed to an anarchist State, however, a laisez-fair capitalist State seeks to codify the freedoms and laws of nature and to enforce and protect them.
  11. 14 Apr '09 09:03
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he is an american, do you expect him to be coherent? odds are he is one of the 96% americans that can't point kabul on a map.
    what's a map... oh, seriously? northeastern afghanistan just west of pakistan. as for romania, not so sure...
  12. 14 Apr '09 09:09
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Why'd you bring it up?
    I'm serious, it's groovy, fun, tongue-in-cheek, just seeing if any socialist will finally directly provide a strong argument for the reasons it continues to exist as an ideology rather than just because its adherents don't like capitalism...

    What makes socialism better to any of you? Please enlighten the capitalist audience out here in the states and around the world...
  13. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    14 Apr '09 09:21
    Why do old American conservatives hate Europe?
  14. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    14 Apr '09 09:26
    Originally posted by eljefejesus


    What makes socialism better to any of you? Please enlighten the capitalist audience out here in the states and around the world...
    Not being European, I'm not really in a position to comment, but posters in this forum have persuaded me that the type of socialism prevalent in The Netherlands and Sweden, at least, works very well for the citizens of those countries. The tax-funded education and healthcare systems are cases in point.
  15. 14 Apr '09 09:27
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Why do old American conservatives hate Europe?
    Which ones? If you mean the incompetent Bush administration, then I would say it is for political reasons. At least politicians (as rarely as I defend them) listen to the public when they cry out to break free from the bonds of socialist ideology due to the ensuing unemployment and drag on growth and life expectancies, etc.