Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    30 Mar '15 16:17
    The thread title is the provocative first sentence of the article "American People Should Hold War Lobby Accountable for Libya Debacle" written by Doug Bandow of the Cato Institute. It's a depressing review of the Libyan intervention and its present consequences (one of which is, naturally, a call for more intervention). Read it here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bandow/american-people-should-ho_b_6964924.html
  2. Joined
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    30 Mar '15 18:06
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The thread title is the provocative first sentence of the article "American People Should Hold War Lobby Accountable for Libya Debacle" written by Doug Bandow of the Cato Institute. It's a depressing review of the Libyan intervention and its present consequences (one of which is, naturally, a call for more intervention). Read it here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bandow/american-people-should-ho_b_6964924.html
    The article mentions other countries in which the USA recently waged war. But there is more to it than even that:

    "The United States is by far the world’s largest arms trader, accounting for around 30 per cent of conventional arms transfers in terms of value. Its position on the ATT is therefore key. Countries supplied: The USA supplies arms to more than 170 countries and has a mixed record of suspending arms supplies on human rights grounds."

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/articles/news/2012/06/big-six-arms-exporters/

    So the war lobby doesn't much care who mans their weapons as long as they are purchased and used. (It doesn't even care who pays for them, as long as the payments are made.)

    There is a country by country breakdown of recipients of USA and Russian arms at:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/arms-sales-by-the-us-and-russia-2014-8

    The UAE is the biggest USA customer (it is listed as receiving arms from both the USA and Russia.)

    But take a look at India's purchases from Russia!
  3. Account suspended
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    30 Mar '15 19:19
    America can't be at peace because The World isn't at peace and if America acts to try to help things out, it gets condemned, if America doesn't act, it gets condemned.
    Libtards ain't happy with anything America does and they talk out of both sides of their mouth, the USA is evil no matter which side they help.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
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    30 Mar '15 19:481 edit
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    America can't be at peace because The World isn't at peace and if America acts to try to help things out, it gets condemned, if America doesn't act, it gets condemned.
    Libtards ain't happy with anything America does and they talk out of both sides of their mouth, the USA is evil no matter which side they help.
    It requires a certain amount of twisted logic to turn the USA into a victim.

    To say America is condemned whatever it does is absurd. The things for which the USA is condemned are specific and if they do not merit condemnation you are free to defend them.

    What you are not free to do without earning a sharp response is to tell lies about the USA's record. For example, when people claim that the USA is a champion of freedom, it is reasonable to point out that its track record is actually one of undermining democracies around the globe and protecting some vicious dictatorships.

    What libtards are not happy with is lies and propaganda. What you are not happy with is the truth about America's track record.

    Does this mean that nobody appreciates, for example, the US achievements in World War Two for example? Not at all. But that does not entitle the USA (or more clearly, US nationalists and militarists) to disregard the sacrifices and the contributions of others in that war and that does not give you a get out of gaol free card when, in other wars and other conflicts, the USA patently takes the side of evil.
  5. Joined
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    30 Mar '15 19:49
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    America can't be at peace because The World isn't at peace and if America acts to try to help things out, it gets condemned, if America doesn't act, it gets condemned.
    Libtards ain't happy with anything America does and they talk out of both sides of their mouth, the USA is evil no matter which side they help.
    My criticism is not of the US. It refers to a historical accident, a USA-based military industrial complex. It just so happens that the US houses manufacturers who supply the majority of arms.

    If the Axis had won WWII and expanded as planned, it would be Friedrich Krupp AG at the center of the war lobby.
  6. Joined
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    30 Mar '15 22:23
    The US government will simply do as the elite wants it to do.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    30 Mar '15 22:34
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    America can't be at peace because The World isn't at peace and if America acts to try to help things out, it gets condemned, if America doesn't act, it gets condemned.
    Libtards ain't happy with anything America does and they talk out of both sides of their mouth, the USA is evil no matter which side they help.
    Whatever a "libtard" is, I doubt the Cato Institute, a right wing libertarian think tank founded with Koch money, qualifies.

    Naturally those who are at war would like the world's most powerful military to assist their side against the other side. That is hardly a reason to do so; it didn't used to be an adequate reason to go to war that there was already a war to go to.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    31 Mar '15 00:12
    When has the US ever been at peace?
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    31 Mar '15 17:11
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    When has the US ever been at peace?
    Not for much of its history.
  10. Standard membervivify
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    31 Mar '15 17:20
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    When has the US ever been at peace?
    Very few nations, developed or not, have truly been at peace.
  11. The Catbird's Seat
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    31 Mar '15 17:21
    Originally posted by vivify
    Very few nations, developed or not, have truly been at peace.
    That also is very true. Man tends to be in conflict with his fellow man.
  12. Joined
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    31 Mar '15 20:47
    Originally posted by vivify
    Very few nations, developed or not, have truly been at peace.
    Switzerland, Luxembourg, and other tax havens have been pretty peaceful. I wonder why?
  13. Joined
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    01 Apr '15 02:001 edit
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    America can't be at peace because The World isn't at peace and if America acts to try to help things out, it gets condemned, if America doesn't act, it gets condemned.
    Libtards ain't happy with anything America does and they talk out of both sides of their mouth, the USA is evil no matter which side they help.
    To be fair, Europe did not condemn Obama for taking out Gaddafi for them. They even gave him a Nobel Peace prize, even though Libya is now crawling with IS.
  14. Joined
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    01 Apr '15 02:02
    Originally posted by JS357
    Switzerland, Luxembourg, and other tax havens have been pretty peaceful. I wonder why?
    Switzerland has it pretty sweet.

    They essentially are the world's bank. They are a small country and one that is naturally defended by mountains.

    Since they are so small, a pain to attack in terms of terrain, and have all the world's money, they can enjoy a high standard of living and remain at peace.

    No one messes with the Swiss.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    01 Apr '15 02:59
    Originally posted by JS357
    Switzerland, Luxembourg, and other tax havens have been pretty peaceful. I wonder why?
    The Caymens are peaceful, but the Bahamas tend to be pretty violent, although not at war. Still, I like the point that taxes tend to create violence.
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