Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
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    09 Nov '16 12:01
    Given Trump's admiration of Putin, and that Putin seems to have supported Trump's election, is it possible that a U.S.-Russian alliance is in the works? Or is it simply that Putin knows he won't have to contend with a possible No Fly Zone, among other things?
  2. SubscriberPonderable
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    09 Nov '16 15:59
    Originally posted by vivify
    Given Trump's admiration of Putin, and that Putin seems to have supported Trump's election, is it possible that a U.S.-Russian alliance is in the works? Or is it simply that Putin knows he won't have to contend with a possible No Fly Zone, among other things?
    Putin knows that if Trump is making good on his promises (a big IF), he will have free Hand to add the eastern Ukraine to his Empire.
    As for Syria, Trump will rather have the Russians create a stable state than having to bomb the IS into oblivion...a win/win?
  3. Account suspended
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    09 Nov '16 17:143 edits
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    Putin knows that if Trump is making good on his promises (a big IF), he will have free Hand to add the eastern Ukraine to his Empire.
    As for Syria, Trump will rather have the Russians create a stable state than having to bomb the IS into oblivion...a win/win?
    As far as I am aware the US has broken all agreements that Reagan made with Mr. Gorbachev that Eastern European states would not be brought into Europe. The USA has also deployed ABM (anti ballistic missile) defense systems all along Russian borders under the guise that its to protect Europe from an imaginary Iranian nuclear threat and financed counter revolutions in Georgia and the Ukraine.

    To put it in perspective imagine if Russia had ABM systems surrounding the USA say in Cuba and Canada or financed a counter revolution in Mexico aimed at taking back Texas.

    Ukraine Crisis : Dr Paul Craig Roberts Interview 2014

    YouTube
  4. Joined
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    09 Nov '16 17:47
    Originally posted by vivify
    Given Trump's admiration of Putin, and that Putin seems to have supported Trump's election, is it possible that a U.S.-Russian alliance is in the works? Or is it simply that Putin knows he won't have to contend with a possible No Fly Zone, among other things?
    All Put wants is a naval base in the black sea and the med to counter us agression.. case closed.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    09 Nov '16 18:311 edit
    Vladimir Putin has just said in a televised statement, that he's "ready and willing to repair relations with the U.S.":

    YouTube

    Article here:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/11/09/after-trumps-victory-putin-wants-better-relations/93534542/

    And it hasn't even been 24 hours since he won. Maybe Trump will actually do great things for the country,
  6. Zugzwang
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    09 Nov '16 23:052 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    Given Trump's admiration of Putin, and that Putin seems to have supported Trump's election, is it possible that a U.S.-Russian alliance is in the works? Or is it simply that Putin knows he won't have to contend with a possible No Fly Zone, among other things?
    "...is it possible that a US-Russian alliance is in the works?"
    --Vivify

    Really? What kind of alliance? Does Vivify expect President Trump to invite Russia to join NATO?
    Vivify's question is fatuous and shows his typical gaping ignorance of geopolitics.

    I expect there to be no (formal) *alliance* between the USA and Russia. But the USA
    and Russia may cooperate more in places such as Syria. And the USA may give
    Russia a free hand to act against Ukraine.
  7. Standard membervivify
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    09 Nov '16 23:37
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "...is it possible that a US-Russian alliance is in the works?"
    --Vivify

    Really? What kind of alliance? Does Vivify expect President Trump to invite Russia to join NATO?
    Vivify's question is fatuous and shows his typical gaping ignorance of geopolitics.

    I expect there to be no (formal) *alliance* between the USA and Russia. But the USA
    and R ...[text shortened]... ore in places such as Syria. And the USA may give
    Russia a free hand to act against Ukraine.
    Duchess apparently doesn't know what it means to be an ally with another country.
  8. Zugzwang
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    09 Nov '16 23:402 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    Duchess apparently doesn't know what it means to be an ally with another country.
    Vivify wrote (his exact words) of a future 'US-Russian alliance'.
    Can Vivify cite the treaty of alliance that he expects the USA and Russia to sign?

    I would add that cooperation on some issues does *not* constitute an alliance.
    Iran is a dedicated enemy of ISIS. To some extent, there has been cooperation (which
    both sides prefer not to publicize) between Iran and the USA against ISIS in Iraq.
    But that's hardly enough to constitute an 'alliance' between Iran and the USA.

    During a civil war in 1970s Lebanon, the USA asked the PLO (though the USA refused
    to recognize the PLO and condemned it as a 'terrorist' organization) to help evacuate
    American civilians from Lebanon, and the PLO did so. The US President sent a letter
    of appreciation to the PLO. (Reportedly, a top PLO military leader even enjoyed a
    holiday in the USA, protected by CIA bodyguards, which was paid for by the US government.)
    Did that limited cooperation constitute an alliance between the USA and the PLO?
  9. Standard membervivify
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    09 Nov '16 23:55
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Vivify wrote (his exact words) of a future 'US-Russian alliance'.
    Can Vivify cite the treaty of alliance that he expects the USA and Russia to sign?
    al·ly1
    noun
    ˈalī/
    1.
    a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose, typically by treaty.
  10. Zugzwang
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    10 Nov '16 00:122 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    al·ly1
    noun
    ˈalī/
    1.
    a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose, typically by treaty.
    Vivify's attempting to stretch a general dictionary definition to avoid conceding his error.
    'Cooperation' does *not necessarily* mean 'alliance', at least *not in a non-trivial sense*.

    Indeed, the USA *sometimes cooperates* with about every other country in the world,
    such as some humanitarian issues (including public health). So, according to Vivify's
    preferred (stretched) definition, the USA must be ALLIED with about every other country.
    I would submit that this would make an 'alliance' trivial to an absurd degree.

    If the USA cooperated with the DPRK (North Korea) in fighting, say, a deadly virus,
    then would that constitute an alliance between the USA and the DPRK?

    As an ignorant layman, Vivify also fails to grasp the nuances of language regarding 'alliance'.
    During the Second World War, Finland and Germany fought (1941-44) together against the USSR.
    So Vivify presumably would conclude that Finland and Germany were 'allies'.
    But that's *not* Finland's official position, which is that Finland and Germany were *not*
    *allies* (there was no treaty of alliance) but only *co-belligerents* (a legal distinction).
  11. Standard membervivify
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    10 Nov '16 05:233 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Vivify's attempting to stretch a general dictionary definition to avoid conceding his error.
    'Cooperation' does *not necessarily* mean 'alliance', at least *not in a non-trivial sense*.

    Indeed, the USA *sometimes cooperates* with about every other country in the world,
    such as some humanitarian issues (including public health). So, according to Vivif ...[text shortened]... t*
    *allies* (there was no treaty of alliance) but only *co-belligerents* (a legal distinction).
    You're typically the only one on this forum who has a problem understanding simple things I post. That should tell you something.

    Other posters (like kmax) have pointed out that you have a problem understanding common speech.
  12. Joined
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    10 Nov '16 05:50
    Originally posted by vivify
    Given Trump's admiration of Putin, and that Putin seems to have supported Trump's election, is it possible that a U.S.-Russian alliance is in the works? Or is it simply that Putin knows he won't have to contend with a possible No Fly Zone, among other things?
    How Trump handles the Ruskies and the wars we continue to stir up, will tell a lot about his position in the NWO. I hope he can avoid war for everyones sake. After all what did the average Ruskie soldier do that would make us want to kill him, or get killed by him? People are still being used as cannon fodder for the elite. The world never seems to tire of it.
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