Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    31 Jul '15 16:24
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/special-report-the-punishment-was-death-by-stoning-the-crime-having-a-mobile-phone-8846585.html



    Two months ago, a young mother of two was stoned to death by her relatives on the order of a tribal court in Pakistan. Her crime: possession of a mobile phone.

    Arifa Bibi's uncle, cousins and others hurled stones and bricks at her until she died, according to media reports. She was buried in a desert far from her village. It's unlikely anyone was arrested. Her case is not unique. Stoning is legal or practised in at least 15 countries or regions. And campaigners fear this barbaric form of execution may be on the rise, particularly in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq.
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
    02 Jan '15
    Moves
    10189
    31 Jul '15 17:10
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/special-report-the-punishment-was-death-by-stoning-the-crime-having-a-mobile-phone-8846585.html



    Two months ago, a young mother of two was stoned to death by her relatives on the order of a tribal court in Pakistan. Her crime: possession of a mobile phone.

    Arifa Bibi's uncle, cousins and others hurled ...[text shortened]... s barbaric form of execution may be on the rise, particularly in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq.
    But.....but.....all cultures are equally beautiful and we must learn to appreciate them and accept their differences.
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    31 Jul '15 19:09
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    But.....but.....all cultures are equally beautiful and we must learn to appreciate them and accept their differences.
    Typically racist and idiotic remark from our resident hate monger.

    The idea of learning to understand other cultures is not to find them all equally attractive and beautiful, though in many ways that is the experience reported by those who take the trouble. That would imply the thought crime of moral relativism. Why would we find beautiful things that are obviously intolerable to our way of thinking?

    The idea rather, is to discover that other people in other cultures do not share our ways of thinking and behaving and work from very different concepts. Only by understanding them can we begin to build a productive relationship with them. That may indeed entail them changing to accept some of our values, but not necessarily with the outcomes we imagine. This story actually exposes something the multinational Unilever's market research department understood long ago, initially marketing their products in rural India. Western consumer goods have unexpected impacts in the developing world and we need to be open to thinking differently about them. In this case, when you put mobile phones into the hands of uneducated people in an impoverished rural society and a physically remote environment, the impact may be unexpected and not always benign.

    Studying other cultures can be a very cynical process because Western culture does offer some distinctly unfair advantages and Western goals are typically exploitative. For example, when the British were unable to subdue the Nuer people of the Sudan, a backward people who nevertheless repeatedly defeated British forces, they welcomed the anthropological research of E Evans Pritchard. After living with them for a time, he was able to describe in detail how the Nuer society was organised, on principles quite unlike what the British formerly understood. Armed with this knowledge and some planes with bombs, the British were able to target the key weakness of the Nuer and put a violent end to their resistance.

    By contrast, the Americans, armed with total pig ignorance of the way the people of Iraq think, accepted Rumsfeld's fiendishly economical strategy of bombing and eliminating the entire military and governmental structure of the Baathist regime, and provoked sectarian and ethnic conflicts which have become a nightmare which the US is incapable of resolving.

    The problem with American racism in foreign policy is that it fails to take seriously the people it is dealing with and, through ignorance, achieves disastrous outcomes over and over again. Fine while you want to bomb people into submission but just flatly stupid when you want anything constructive.
  4. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    31 Jul '15 19:20
    Good thing most people now reject ideologies that encourage stoning as a form of punishment.

    Or wait...
  5. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    31 Jul '15 19:25
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Good thing most people now reject ideologies that encourage stoning as a form of punishment.

    Or wait...
    Funny how leftists embrace them today.

    Just look at Finn's response.
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    31 Jul '15 19:28
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how leftists embrace them today.

    Just look at Finn's response.
    Yes, do tell us more about what you are thinking here. How is your reading comprehension today? Still below age nine?
  7. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    31 Jul '15 19:31
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Yes, do tell us more about what you are thinking here. How is your reading comprehension today? Still below age nine?
    Your love of Islamic countries.
  8. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '15 19:41
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how leftists embrace them today.

    Just look at Finn's response.
    I am willing to bet that you are more in favour of the death penalty and harsh punishment in general than I am. I suspect you would call me a leftist though.

    When I first saw this thread my first thought was that the way Americans view the behaviour in the OP as uncivilized barbarism is probably exactly how the Swedes view the US practice of locking up much of their populace and practising capital punishment and torture as uncivilized barbarism.
  9. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '15 19:42
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Your love of Islamic countries.
    You mistake the absence of rabid racist hate as love.
  10. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    31 Jul '15 19:46
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how leftists embrace them today.

    Just look at Finn's response.
    Finn says understanding other cultures (not necessarily accepting them) is in the interests of anyone (any individual, corporation, nation, religion, etc.) that wants to advance their interests, be they trade, colonization, defeat in war, conversion to another faith, whatever; and can be used to advance interests we approve or disapprove.. That's not leftist. If anything, it's Machiavelli/Sun Tzu.
  11. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    31 Jul '15 19:54
    Originally posted by JS357
    Finn says understanding other cultures (not necessarily accepting them) is in the interests of anyone (any individual, corporation, nation, religion, etc.) that wants to advance their interests, be they trade, colonization, defeat in war, conversion to another faith, whatever; and can be used to advance interests we approve or disapprove.. That's not leftist. If anything, it's Machiavelli/Sun Tzu.
    I think that fact that woman was stoned gives us a pretty good understanding of her culture.
  12. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    31 Jul '15 20:171 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I think that fact that woman was stoned gives us a pretty good understanding of her culture.
    It certainly does. But there is more opportunity. It somehow grievously violates a 1500-year old pre-technological dogma. It also threatens the patriarchy by empowering communication between women, It would be useful to know these things, if you are a cell phone company trying to expand the market to women. Perhaps modifying the phone to limit the people the woman can call, so, say, her husband or father has to approve the sale and has password protected administrative.control, would be an entry to the market.

    Then we can hack it.

    That's why it's Machiavellian.
  13. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    31 Jul '15 20:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Your love of Islamic countries.
    23% of the world's population are muslims and they are found in diverse cultures from Indonesia to England to the USA. It is hard to make valid claims for all the countries involved, or even all those where Islam is the majority religion.

    Since I am an atheist and you profess Christianity in a form that entails at least some pretty fundamentalist beliefs, including I think (maybe just when you are in that mood) a literal reading of Genesis, then you actually have far more in common with muslims than I do, including your professed affection for a bible that advocates stoning in more than a few places, and those include places to which Muslims also turn to promote stoning. (For your benefit, there are a number of books of the old testament that Muslims incorporate into their faith system, which is why Jews and Christians have such respect in the Qu'ran).

    I am of course horrified when religious people refer to the Old Testament as their moral guide today, as happens among fundamentalist Jews, Muslims and Christians. Nearly always, it turns out they are misreading the text to suit their peculiar, autocratic dictates.
  14. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    31 Jul '15 21:21
    Originally posted by finnegan
    23% of the world's population are muslims and they are found in diverse cultures from Indonesia to England to the USA. It is hard to make valid claims for all the countries involved, or even all those where Islam is the majority religion.

    Since I am an atheist and you profess Christianity in a form that entails at least some pretty fundamentalist belie ...[text shortened]... always, it turns out they are misreading the text to suit their peculiar, autocratic dictates.
    Typical liberal dribble. You can make up excuses for any group, as long as it isn't Christians.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    31 Jul '15 21:46
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Typically racist and idiotic remark from our resident hate monger.

    The idea of learning to understand other cultures is not to find them all equally attractive and beautiful, though in many ways that is the experience reported by those who take the trouble. That would imply the thought crime of moral relativism. Why would we find beautiful things that ...[text shortened]... want to bomb people into submission but just flatly stupid when you want anything constructive.
    Typically racist and idiotic remark from our resident hate monger.

    No moron! He's being sarcastic. Surely these Islamic nations do have cultural beliefs and customs which are unacceptable by those of us in the civilized west. We are told we ought not notice such differences.
Back to Top