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Debates Forum

  1. 12 Oct '12 23:12
    Women I hope you were listening last night.

    Romney/Ryan believe that people can vote for a state government to control your body.

    In contrast, Obama/Biden agree with the Supreme Court that the Constitution forbids the government from controlling your body, no matter what the tyranny of the majority might say.
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Oct '12 23:34 / 1 edit
    It's not the woman's body that's the issue; it's the body of the unborn child that he's concerned about.
  3. 12 Oct '12 23:50
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's not the woman's body that's the issue; it's the body of the unborn child that he's concerned about.
    The unborn child should have rights as well. Whether one human being is inside another one or not is not germaine to the issue of basic human rights. As much as the liberals may bitch and moan, they can't get around the fact that abortion is murder of another human being, even though the wanton precipitated cold-blooded murder of innocent unborn children is currently allowed (and encouraged in some circles) by the U.S. government.
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Oct '12 23:57
    Yeah, you would think that's common sense. Abortion is NOT a women's rights issue. After all, shouldn't the man who (legally) fathered the unborn child have any say?
  5. 13 Oct '12 00:03
    The singular upside to abortion is that at some point the liberals will have aborted themselves into oblivion.
  6. 13 Oct '12 00:09
    Biden said that what is needed are Justices appointed with an "open mind". Then he went on to say that Obama and he would make sure that their appointees would not overturn Roe vs. Wade no matter what. So much for an open mind. In addition, since when are people chosen soley on upholding a particular court ruling? It seems to me that this is equivalent to judicial activism.

    Just imagine if the President back in the day swore he would only appoint Justices that would uphold Dred Scott.
  7. 13 Oct '12 01:01
    Originally posted by vivify
    Yeah, you would think that's common sense. Abortion is NOT a women's rights issue. After all, shouldn't the man who (legally) fathered the unborn child have any say?
    I get very queasy when I hear men discussing what Women can and cannot do with their own bodies, perhaps one day science will give us a procedure that allows us men to carry the unwanted fetus to full term, then you pro life guys can have all the babies you could possibly desire.
  8. Standard member vivify
    rain
    13 Oct '12 02:08 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    I get very queasy when I hear men discussing what Women can and cannot do with their own bodies, perhaps one day science will give us a procedure that allows us men to carry the unwanted fetus to full term, then you pro life guys can have all the babies you could possibly desire.
    This is an agravatingly inacurate accusation, that abortion is "men telling women what to do with their bodies". First of all, there are plenty of women that oppose abortion as well.

    Secondly, let's get this straight: no one's telling a woman what to do with her body...it's not "her" body that she's killing. If a man could carry a child full-term, abortion would be still be killing a life. If a child was artificially inseminated in a test tube, killing that child is no less an act of murder, than killing a child in the womb.
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    13 Oct '12 02:13 / 1 edit
    But for the record, let me say this: despite the fact that abortion is indeed murder, I don't think it should be illegal; abortion is such a complex issue, (that can lead to unwanted children, unhappy families, broken homes, social stigmas, etc.) that a simpe "yes" or "no" to making it legal oversimplifies things. I just think we need to be honest, and call abortion what it is, which is killing; NOT "men telling women what to do".
  10. 13 Oct '12 02:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    But for the record, let me say this: despite the fact that abortion is indeed murder, I don't think it should be illegal; abortion is such a complex issue, (that can lead to unwanted children, unhappy families, broken homes, social stigmas, etc.) that a simpe "yes" or "no" to making it legal oversimplifies things. I just think we need to be honest, and call abortion what it is, which is killing; NOT "men telling women what to do".
    Wow. Just wow.

    So abortion is murder, however, abortion should still be allowed to prevent people from being unhappy?

    I can understand those who delude themselves into thinking the unborn are not human, but this takes the cake.
  11. 13 Oct '12 02:23
    Originally posted by vivify
    But for the record, let me say this: despite the fact that abortion is indeed murder, I don't think it should be illegal; abortion is such a complex issue, (that can lead to unwanted children, unhappy families, broken homes, social stigmas, etc.) that a simpe "yes" or "no" to making it legal oversimplifies things. I just think we need to be honest, and call abortion what it is, which is killing; NOT "men telling women what to do".
    Well you are just wrong; because it is not murder unless you believe that sentient citizenship begins at conception, and yes if you force a women to carry a fetus to full term you are in fact taking control of her body for nine months and her social reality for as long as She lives.

    BTW I am pretty sure that Biden and Ryan are in fact Men.
  12. Standard member vivify
    rain
    13 Oct '12 02:36 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Wow. Just wow.

    So abortion is murder, however, abortion should still be allowed to prevent people from being unhappy?

    I can understand those who delude themselves into thinking the unborn are not human, but this takes the cake.
    So I assume you'd ban rape victims from getting an abortion?
  13. Standard member vivify
    rain
    13 Oct '12 02:38 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by kevcvs57

    BTW I am pretty sure that Biden and Ryan are in fact Men.
    Is Sarah Palin a man too? Because her position is the same as Ryan, when she was in the VP debates. Was she just a man telling women what to do with their bodies?

    As for the rest of your post, you're just rambling. The premeditated killing of a human life is murder. Common sense.
  14. 13 Oct '12 04:48
    Originally posted by vivify
    Is Sarah Palin a man too? Because her position is the same as Ryan, when she was in the VP debates. Was she just a man telling women what to do with their bodies?

    As for the rest of your post, you're just rambling. The premeditated killing of a human life is murder. Common sense.
    A fetus is not a human life unless you subscribe fundamentalist hogwash.

    In case you have forgotten the title thread that I was addressing:

    "Women and Romney/Ryan"
  15. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    13 Oct '12 04:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    This is an agravatingly inacurate accusation, that abortion is "men telling women what to do with their bodies". First of all, there are plenty of women that oppose abortion as well.

    Secondly, let's get this straight: no one's telling a woman what to do with her body...it's not "her" body that she's killing.
    If we lived in a society where men showed by their actions, not by high minded words, that they would actually stick around and be fathers in a real sense, not just by the paying of child support, even though many shirk even this basic responsibility, then maybe you might have a real argument.

    For all those teary eyed moralists who would pontificate about the evils of abortion, I see very few organizations to match their rhetoric and back up the sanctity of life argument, with real support of the mother when said sacred life, in the form of a real child, is born.

    Without the woman's body, life is not viable. End of story. Until she delivers that baby, what she does with the life inside of her, is her prerogative. Get over it and get used to it, cause any other moral interpretation of what society via the law can compel her to do can then compel society to invade your body on some other pretext in the future.