Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    21 Oct '16 14:081 edit
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/china-gender-discrimination/

    "When Zhou Yuxia, 24, returned to Beijing after studying in the United States, she had real trouble securing a job. She had the right qualifications for the positions she was looking for -- she just wasn't a man."

    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered to be an asset for some jobs -- including government positions -- in China"

    "It is very difficult to get courts in China to accept discrimination cases, as Cao Ju herself experienced"

    "Data in the Third Chinese Women's Social Status Investigation, jointly carried out in 2010 by the All-China Women's Federation (ACWF) and the National Bureau of Statistics of China, revealed that more than 72% of women had a clear perception of "not being hired or promoted because of gender" discrimination.
    Over 75% believed they were dismissed due to marriage and childbirth, with fears that this could worsen as China relaxes its one-child policy."
  2. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10107
    21 Oct '16 14:09
    Do they still kill female babies there?
  3. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    21 Oct '16 14:10
    Originally posted by whodey
    Do they still kill female babies there?
    I don't believe that China's the best model in how we should bring up our daughters.
  4. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10107
    21 Oct '16 14:14
    Originally posted by vivify
    I don't believe that China's the best model in how we should bring up our daughters.
    As I recall, the government mandated only one child, which prompted many to kill their female babies once they were born because they wanted male babies to carry on their family name. (No planned parenthood I reckon to take care of it the PC way)

    Do they still do this?
  5. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1420
    21 Oct '16 14:42
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/china-gender-discrimination/

    "When Zhou Yuxia, 24, returned to Beijing after studying in the United States, she had real trouble securing a job. She had the right qualifications for the positions she was looking for -- she just wasn't a man."

    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered to be an asset for some j ...[text shortened]... rriage and childbirth, with fears that this could worsen as China relaxes its one-child policy."
    Not a big surprise, this has been going on in China and most Asian countries for a very long time.
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    21 Oct '16 14:461 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    As I recall, the government mandated only one child, which prompted many to kill their female babies once they were born because they wanted male babies to carry on their family name. (No planned parenthood I reckon to take care of it the PC way)

    Do they still do this?
    They do the same in India and some other countries where there is no one child policy, but things in China are worse because of it. I think you will find that abortion is available in China and was pretty necessary to their one child policy. They have abandoned that policy however. In China, the deficit of women in the population creates social problems on a large scale.

    Touching to see whodey taking such an interest. Womens issues are of importance globally and should be taken seriously.
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Oct '16 19:512 edits
    Originally posted by finnegan to Whodey
    They do the same in India and some other countries where there is no one child policy, but things in China are worse because of it. I think you will find that abortion is available in China and was pretty necessary to their one child policy. They have abandoned that policy however. In China, the deficit of women in the population creates social ...[text shortened]... taking such an interest. Womens issues are of importance globally and should be taken seriously.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_child_policy

    There's an ocean of Western misinformation about China's *former* "one child policy".
    "This policy allowed many exceptions and ethnic minorities [non-Han Chinese] were exempt."
    --Wikipedia

    But I can recall reading some Westerners claim that China's 'one child policy' was
    motivated by China's aim to commit genocide against all its (diverse) ethnic minorities!
    In fact, during the period when the 'one child policy' was in effect, China's ethnic minorities
    signficantly increased in population, both absolutely and as a proportion of the total.

    In China today, it's been widely recognized (including by academics and some people in
    government) that the 'one child policy' was too harsh, unfairly enforced, and resulted in abuses.
    Contrary to what some Westerners like (or need) to believe, I don't think that China's
    government was motivated just by a malicious craving 'to slaughter innocent babies'.
    I think that China's government became too alarmed by dire warnings (including from
    Westerners) about China's potential overpopulation and made a misguided policy decision.

    My point is that, like other governments, China's government may make policy decisions
    based upon miscalculation or (arguably) sometimes incompetence. But some Westerners
    like to attribute everything that they dislike in China to Chinese Communism always
    being evil or even to Chinese themselves (the 'Yellow Peril' ) always being evil.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Oct '16 21:252 edits
    Originally posted by finnegan to Whodey
    They do the same in India and some other countries where there is no one child policy, but things in China are worse because of it. I think you will find that abortion is available in China and was pretty necessary to their one child policy. They have abandoned that policy however. In China, the deficit of women in the population creates social ...[text shortened]... taking such an interest. Womens issues are of importance globally and should be taken seriously.
    China consistently ranks far ahead of India ("the world's largest democracy" ) in gender equality indices.
    (In the 2014 UN GEI, China was 40th and India was 130th. The USA was 55th.)
    But Westerners seem much more impassioned in denouncing sexism in China than in India.
    So the Chinese (including Chinese women) believe that Westerners tend to be motivated
    by other factors (such as racism or a paranoid fear of China becoming stronger)
    in singling out China as a particular target of their condemnation.
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Oct '16 21:562 edits
    Originally posted by vivify to Whodey
    I don't believe that China's the best model in how we should bring up our daughters.
    I know many more Chinese women much better than Vivify does or ever will.
    I would have no objection (though I would have other complaints about life in China)
    in bringing up my daughter in China. Life in China is extremely diverse, and I am
    referring to the opportunities that a middle-class girl would have in a major city rather
    than a poor girl would have in a remote village.

    One reason is that Chinese culture is less anti-intellectual than American culture
    (Vivify embraces American pop culture). Chinese girls tend to score significantly higher
    than American girls of the same ages in mathematics, perhaps even higher than
    American boys of the same ages. In contrast to American girls, Chinese girls seem
    much less afflicted by 'math anxiety', the cultural belief that it's unnatural for women to
    excel or even be competent in mathematics. So Chinese girls already seem more
    inclined than American girls to pursue careers in science or engineering. But Vivify
    may prefer that his daughter embrace Beyonce, for instance, as a role model rather
    than Maryam Mirzhakani (Iran), the first woman mathematician to win a Fields Medal.

    On the other hand, it's often easier (in terms of academic work) for a Chinese student
    to get admitted to a university in the USA than in China, so some wealthy Chinese families
    actually send their (not quite bright enough) children to live and study in the USA.
    A mediocre student in China could become known as a star student in the USA.
    And Americans might ignorantly assume that he or she represents the best Chinese students.

    And I would say that a girl growing up in China would likely be safer than a girl growing
    up in the USA from sexual violence. I have known many Chinese women who have
    lived, studied, or worked in the USA, and none of them have ever said that they felt
    safer in the USA than in China from being raped or sexually assaulted.

    In the UN Gender Equality Index for 2014 (the latest year available), China ranked 40th
    while the much wealthier USA ranked 55th--by far the worst ranking of any very rich country.
  10. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Oct '16 22:021 edit
    Deng Yaping (born in 1973) was perhaps the greatest woman table tennis player in history.
    After retiring as an athlete, she earned a PhD at the University of Cambridge in the UK.
    Her master's thesis (at the University of Nottiingham) was about sexism in China.
    (I read her thesis years ago; I don't have it in front of me now.)

    Deng Yaping wrote that while sexism still exists in China, there's much less sexism now
    than in the past and the government's taking measures in law and policy to reduce it further.
    Personally, I tend to take what Deng Yaping writes with 'a grain of salt' because I think
    that her strong loyalty to China's Communist Party affects her objectivity, but she seems
    to be largely correct in her thesis (which was approved at a British university).
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Oct '16 23:48
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/china-gender-discrimination/

    "When Zhou Yuxia, 24, returned to Beijing after studying in the United States, she had real trouble securing a job. She had the right qualifications for the positions she was looking for -- she just wasn't a man."

    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered to be an asset for some j ...[text shortened]... rriage and childbirth, with fears that this could worsen as China relaxes its one-child policy."
    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered an asset for some jobs...in China."
    --Zhou Yuxia

    I know. Can Vivify name a society in which a woman's attractiveness is never considered an asset for any job?
  12. Unknown Territories
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    21 Oct '16 23:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered an asset for some jobs...in China."
    --Zhou Yuxia

    I know. Can Vivify name a society in which a woman's attractiveness is never considered an asset for any job?
    Got diarrhea?
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    22 Oct '16 00:084 edits
    For anyone interested in putting aside Western stereotypes about life in China, here's
    a blog by a white American woman who's married to a Chinese man and lives in China:
    She's been living in China since 2005.

    http://shangdongxifu.wordpress.com

    And here's a blog by Jocelyn Eikenburg, a white American woman who's married to a
    Chinese man and now lives in Hangzhou, China.

    http://www.speakingofchina.com/

    I note that these white American women now prefer to live in China rather than in the USA.
    I am not saying, of course, that life must always be better for a woman in China than in the USA.
    My point is that life in China is not so terrible (as many ignorant Westerners like to believe)
    that a Western woman could not find happiness living there.

    Chinese people (including Han Chinese) are very diverse, including in their preferred languages.
    (It's a myth that all Chinese can speak or prefer to speak Mandarin--putonghua.)
    Some Chinese are among the most admirable people whom I have ever known and
    some others among the most despicable.
  14. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    22 Oct '16 14:001 edit
    Duchess' jingoistic feelings are very easily hurt.
  15. Joined
    27 Dec '05
    Moves
    143878
    22 Oct '16 20:28
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "A woman's attractiveness is still considered an asset for some jobs...in China."
    --Zhou Yuxia

    I know. Can Vivify name a society in which a woman's attractiveness is never considered an asset for any job?
    Australian Aboriginal kangaroo tracker .
Back to Top