Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    22 Oct '16 22:571 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Duchess' jingoistic feelings are very easily hurt.
    The ethnocentric American troll Vivify likes to keep hurling insults and lies rather than accept facts.
    Obviously, the troll Vivify could not care less about women in China. He created this thread
    only because he wants to do some 'China-bashing' after feeling 'butt hurt' because I pointed
    out that the USA's much worse in gender equality than 'flag-waving' Vivify can accept.

    I note that Vivify has nothing to say about the fact the UN's Gender Equality Index ranked
    the USA 55th (out of 154 countries), by far the lowest of any top ten country in wealth (human development).
    China was ranked 40th (just behind the UK in 39th), even though China's only 90th in wealth.
    Even many American women scholars are disappointed that, considering its wealth,
    the USA's so poor in gender equality.

    I already have stated many times that I am not a nationalist of any kind.
    I also have said (it seemed be one of the racist troll Phil3000's absurd obsessions)
    that I never have been a citizen of the People's Republic of China, which accordingly
    has no claim on my allegiance. With my Chinese friends, I can and have been quite
    critical of many things about China, including some aspects of Chinese nationalism.
    I have the right, however, to cite factual evidence in criticizing the evident anti-Chinese
    racism that the likes of Vivify, AThousandYoung, Phil3000 and others apparently embrace.
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    22 Oct '16 23:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    For anyone interested in putting aside Western stereotypes about life in China, here's
    a blog by a white American woman who's married to a Chinese man and lives in China:
    She's been living in China since 2005.

    http://shangdongxifu.wordpress.com

    And here's a blog by Jocelyn Eikenburg, a white American woman who's married to a
    Chinese man and now l ...[text shortened]... ong the most admirable people whom I have ever known and
    some others among the most despicable.
    Do the 'thumbs down' come from people who prefer to keep believing their cherished
    racist stereotypes about the Chinese and are fiercely unwilling to learn anything else?

    Or do the 'thumbs down' come from insecure racist white men who loathe the fact that
    some white American women can marry Chinese men and prefer to live happily (more
    or less) with them in China rather than live in the USA?
  3. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9781
    22 Oct '16 23:103 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The ethnocentric American troll Vivify likes to keep hurling insults and lies rather than accept facts.
    Obviously, the troll Vivify could not care less about women in China. He created this thread
    only because he wants to do some 'China-bashing' after feeling 'butt hurt' because I pointed
    out that the USA's much worse in gender equality than 'flag-wav ...[text shortened]... inese
    racism that the likes of Vivify, AThousandYoung, Phil3000 and others apparently embrace.
    Duchess claims I'm butt-hurt, yet posted something like four extremely long posts crying about the OP. Actions speak louder than words.

    I also didn't complain about the subject the of her thread. I only had a problem with it being click-bait.
  4. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Oct '16 20:581 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Duchess claims I'm butt-hurt, yet posted something like four extremely long posts crying about the OP. Actions speak louder than words.

    I also didn't complain about the subject the of her thread. I only had a problem with it being click-bait.
    The troll Vivify's exact claimed motives are no concern of mine.
    Regarding his choice of thread title, one could write 'Women face discrimination in __'
    and have every country in the world fill that blank.

    There's sexism in China. Some Chinese women could face less sexism elsewhere.
    But most Chinese women would be happy by not having to face more sexism in most other societies.

    "Women hold up half the sky."
    --Mao Zedong

    In China, there long has been an ideal of attaining equality between men and women.
    That ideal has not yet been attained, but it's still there.

    At a more mundane level, Americans might wonder (when not sneering) why Chinese
    girls perform much better in mathematics than Americans, if not also better than American boys.
    One reason is that when mathematics is taught in China, the message to *every*
    student (male or female, rich or poor) is 'You can learn this. You must learn this.'
    I have heard affluent privileged white American girls cheerfully make excuses such
    as "I'm so bad in math! It's natural because I'm just a girl." Most Americans accept
    that kind of excuse, but most Chinese don't accept it. A Chinese girl who made that
    excuse might be told, "Don't act like an American! (sarcasm) You must study harder."
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    24 Oct '16 02:132 edits
    I came across an internet story (2013) by Ashley Money, a young white American woman,
    "I Was Raped in China (An American's Perspective)".

    In the summer of 2008 (around the same time that the Olympics were held in Beijing),
    Ashley Money went to study in China, apparently in Qingdao, learning basic Chinese
    and, perhaps more importantly to her, enjoying exploring China as a tourist.

    "Quickly, I also found out the night life was dynamic...my classmates and I were attending
    Karaoke followed by a nightclub every weekend."
    --Ashley Money

    One evening, this American 'party girl' went out as usual to a nightclub and apparently
    had 'a few too many' drinks. A Chinese man offered to buy another drink for her.
    Then, 'without warning' (she said), he dragged Ashley Money against her will through
    the 'extremely crowded' nightclub and away to his nearby apartment. There he took her
    to bed and raped her. Afterward, she escaped before he did not bother to lock the door
    and left her alone when he went to the bathroom. (He seems like an inept kidnapper.)

    I would like to believe her story. But it does raise some questions, and I don't how she
    would be able to answer them. First of all, she does not claim to have been unconscious
    or incapacitated while she was being carried off to be raped. She does not claim that
    the man showed a weapon or made any verbal threat. Given that he had grabbed her in
    a place with many people around (probably including women or other Westerners), why
    didn't she attempt to call for help there? Even if she could not speak Chinese well, her
    piercing scream would have been enough to signal that she was a young woman in distress.
    If she put up a struggle against the man, then it seems likely that someone else would
    have noticed that something was wrong and intervened on her behalf or called the police.
    Ashley Money said that she believes that no one else in the crowded nightclub noticed
    her being carried off to be raped or that no else (busy with drinking, dancing, or flirting)
    cared enough to say or do anything. Ashley Money said that she considered doing
    something to 'break free' of the man, but, for unexplained reasons, she attempted nothing.
    Apparently, she did not resist him before or when he 'laid her on the bed and raped her'.
    Did she say 'no' (She must have already learned how to say 'no' in her Chinese class.)
    She does not say if she did. But it's important to keep in mind that she never said that
    she gave her consent to him for sexual intercourse, and her absence of consent would
    constitute rape (though I don't know for certain how rape was defined under local law in 2008).

    After she had escaped, Ashley Money went to a hospital for treatment. She complained
    about not receiving enough sympathy. Some people there did not find her story credible.
    She had been drinking, may have been revealingly dressed, and had gone alone with a
    man from a crowded nightclub to his apartment. She said that a Chinese nurse blamed her
    for being a 'sexually free Western woman', apparently stereotyping her as a young American
    woman who liked to drink in a nightclub and then 'hook up' with a man who bought drinks.
    Given that Ashley Money implicitly admitted that her knowledge of Chinese was not good
    (she seems to have been a beginning student of Chinese), it seems possible that she
    misunderstood what the Chinese were saying to her. Perhaps, feeling ashamed of herself
    (which is common among victims), she assumed that the Chinese were being more harshly
    judgmental about her than they really were.

    Ashley Money did not report her rape to the Chinese police. Perhaps she was afraid of
    facing prejudice for being a Western woman. Perhaps she was afraid of being asked some
    of the questions that I would have asked her. She seems to feel that no Chinese cared
    about her getting raped because she was perceived as a 'sexually free Western woman'.
    I find that hard to believe. I believe that she would have received more support if she
    had come across as a more credible or sympathetic victim. Even if the facts were as she
    described them, it would seem very hard to get the man convicted of rape in a Western court.
    He could have claimed that she had consented. I don't know if there was evidence of
    her physical injuries after being raped.

    Ashley Money's correct in writing that Chinese culture traditionally blamed and stigmatized rape victims.
    (The same was true of traditional cultures in the West.) This attitude has begun to change.

    To sum up, Chinese men are flesh-and-blood men like other men, neither saints nor devils
    in how they treat women. While it's generally safe for a Western woman to travel in China,
    she should not assume that she must be completely safe even if she ignores the sensible
    precautions that she would take at home.
  6. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52866
    24 Oct '16 10:52
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Got diarrhea?
    Once again proving you are a verified assshole.
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