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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    02 Aug '17 22:233 edits
    Hou Yifan (China), the highest rated woman in the world, has just won a
    strong tournament in Biel, Switzerland, ahead of such players as Ponomariov
    (a former FIDE world champion), Bacrot, and Leko, who each were once
    (at age 14) the youngest players ever to become a GM in history.
    Other players included the highest rated participants Harikrishna and
    Navara and the 'attacking genius' Morozevich.

    http://en.chessbase.com/post/50th-biel-round-9

    "50th Biel: Historic win for Hou Yifan"

    "One could hardly imagine more exciting final round pairings! ...
    Hou was in a must-win situation. But win she did!"

    "And so Hou Yifan was the clear winner of the GM tournament with a
    tournament performance of 2810 Elo. This is the best performance by a
    woman in decades."

    Hou Yifan has said that she no longer will play in women's events (except
    perhaps for the Olympiad) and focus upon improving in open events.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_chess_players

    "There are currently 35 female players who hold the Grandmaster title."

    These players nearly all come from a few powers in women's chess:
    There are 9 GMs of Chinese heritage, 5 GMs from Georgia, 4 GMs from Ukraine, and
    5 GMs now for Russia (including one who changed her affiliation from Ukraine to Russia).
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
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    02 Aug '17 22:45
    Mrs Ketevan Grant is a GM. Former world ladies junior champion I believe, originally from Georgia she had the good sense to marry a Scotsman. Yifan Hou did good, real good. Perhaps she is 'hard wired', differently to other women. Nigel should explain the phenomena.
  3. Joined
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    02 Aug '17 22:481 edit
    I'll pick an easy one

    Judit Polgar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r
  4. Joined
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    10087
    02 Aug '17 22:50
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    Mrs Ketevan Grant is a GM. Former world ladies junior champion I believe, originally from Georgia she had the good sense to marry a Scotsman. Yifan Hou did good, real good. Perhaps she is 'hard wired', differently to other women. Nigel should explain the phenomena.
    Behind every good woman chess player is a good man.

    Isn't that right duchess?
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    02 Aug '17 23:01
    Originally posted by @whodey to Robbie Carrobie
    Behind every good woman chess player is a good man.

    Isn't that right duchess?
    Hou Yifan's not married and, if she has a boyfriend, then she has kept their relationship private.

    "ChessBase: Can you tell us something about your private life?"
    "My life is rather interesting, colorful, and full of surprises. Of course, chess is part of this
    but my life is not only chess. There are many other aspects, after all, at the moment I am
    still studying. I do have a number of hobbies and every day my life has something new to offer."
    --Hou Yifan (16 July 2015)

    "How are your relations to the previous Women World Champions from China: Xie Jun, Zhu Chen, and Xu Yuhua?"
    "I admire the chess success of my predecessors on the throne. When one of them stopped
    to play, I just had started. They are or were my team mate, I see them as my sisters.
    We have very good relations. They support me and sometimes help me with advice."
    --Hou Yifan

    Hou Yifan's personal coach now is Chinese GM Yu Shaoteng (who's roughly an average GM).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Shaoteng
  6. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    02 Aug '17 23:191 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Behind every good woman chess player is a good man.

    Isn't that right duchess?
    Strong young female players often receive attentions, advances, or more from male players.
    Many such women prefer not to get into a serious relationship with a weaker male player.
    An exception is English IM Jovanka Houska, who married a much lower rated Norwegian man.

    According to her friend Paul Hoffman, GM Irina Krush has received, at least when she was
    younger, many propositions from higher rated male GMs, who offered to train her toward
    becoming a women's world champion in return for becoming their girlfriend or mistress.

    Reportedly, Irina Krush has been in romantic relationships with (among others)
    GM Alexander Morozevich, GM Pascal Charbonneau (from whom she's divorced--he
    once said that "it sucks to be the weakest [in chess] of all her boyfriends" ), and now with
    GM Giorgi Kacheishvili (who supposedly influenced her conversion to Orthodox Christianity).

    Given the strong demand from male GMs for female GMs as romantic partners and the scarcity
    of female GMs, it follows that female GMs may be in an enviable position in the marriage market.
    So it's hardly surprising that some female GMs should each have had relationships with several male GMs.
  7. Standard memberchaney3
    Bring it on.......
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    02 Aug '17 23:34
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Hou Yifan's not married and, if she has a boyfriend, then she has kept their relationship private.

    "ChessBase: Can you tell us something about your private life?"
    "My life is rather interesting, colorful, and full of surprises. Of course, chess is part of this
    but my life is not only chess. There are many other aspects, after all, at the moment I am ...[text shortened]... Chinese GM Yu Shaoteng (who's roughly an average GM).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Shaoteng
    What's with your obsession of the Chinese?
  8. Joined
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    03 Aug '17 00:00
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    What's with your obsession of the Chinese?
    She was born a poor chinese girl in the UK where male members of her family gave her the wrong sort of attention.
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    03 Aug '17 00:022 edits
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    What's with your obsession of the Chinese?
    Not long ago, it was common for racist white players (I recall some Western GMs) to claim
    that no Chinese could ever become strong at chess, implying--if not asserting--that was
    because all Chinese supposedly are 'racially inferior' in intelligence to white people.
    This kind of racism was normally accepted among white players.

    I recall, after he had lost a game to him, GM Jacob Aagaard saying that Chinese GM Ni Hua
    was a 'nice man', but he knew that Ni Hua (who then was rated in the mid-2600s FIDE,
    far higher than Aagaard himself) never could improve. Jacob Aagaard claimed (or at
    least implied) that all Chinese players are deficient in the higher intelligence that only white
    players have, which enables them (so Anand's just a one-off?) to become champions.
    Jacob Aagaard apparently came close to claiming that it's genetically (racially) impossible
    for any Chinese ever to become (or even seriously challenge) the world champion.

    In fact, Jacob Aagaard was wrong about Ni Hua's future. Ni Hua significantly improved to
    a peak rating of 2724 FIDE. Ni Hua helped China's very young team win the 2014 Olympiad.
    Defying all expectations (and racial prejudice), the Chinese men wept openly after their stunning victory.

    If a Chinese player does win the open individual world championship (five Chinese women
    already have won the FIDE women's world championship), then I suspect that some
    racists will respond by accusing him (or her) of cheating and dismissing the outcome.
    Perhaps Wajoma will claim that this Chinese player must be 'mixed race' and have
    derived all his intelligence from superior white genes.

    On one hand, racist white people like to boast about their superiority over non-white
    people, particularly in various forms of mental (as opposed to athletic) competition.
    On the other hand, when it's pointed out that the claimed superiority of white people is
    false, or at least exaggerated, racist white people become defensive and resentful.
  10. Joined
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    03 Aug '17 00:12
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Not long ago, it was common for racist white players (I recall some Western GMs) to claim
    that no Chinese could ever become strong at chess, implying--if not asserting--that was
    because all Chinese supposedly are 'racially inferior' in intelligence to white people.
    This kind of racism was normally accepted among white players.

    I recall, after he had ...[text shortened]... e people is
    false, or at least exaggerated, racist white people become defensive and resentful.
    Do you claim that I am such a racist?
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    03 Aug '17 00:232 edits
    For many years, someone looking superficially at FIDE lists would get quite a misleading
    impression of chess in China. For various reasons (distance, money, politics), it was
    extremely difficult for even the best Chinese players to participate in international tournaments.
    (Western tournaments typically did not invite Chinese, which has become less important
    today given the proliferation of open tournaments where it's not necessary to be invited.)
    Hence, Chinese players had few opportunities (perhaps one tournament every two years)
    to make norms and earn GM or IM titles. And China itself was a rather isolated region
    with artificially depressed (compared to the rest of world) ratings. At the Olympiads, it
    often was shown that a Chinese IM rated 2450 could be as strong as a Western GM
    rated 50+ points higher. Chinese players were trapped in an underrated rating pool.
    Chinese chess was stronger than indicated by the small number of GMs and IMs.

    This situation has largely, though not completely, changed. China's now hosting more
    international tournaments. The internet has put Chinese in touch with the rest of the world.
    The top Chinese players are independent professionals, who choose to play when and
    where they can, keeping their winnings. They are not obedient servants of the state.

    Given China's vast population, some Westerners have wondered why the Chinese don't
    (yet) dominate chess as much as they, say, dominate table tennis. These Westerners
    apparently like to imply that's because the Chinese are intrinsically inferior.

    First of all, chess is much less popular than xiangqi (Chinese chess) and weiqi (Go) in China.
    So only a small minority of Chinese with talent for mental games choose to pursue chess.
    The FIDE rating list shows that China has relatively few players active in international chess.
    But these players are disproportionately successful in achieving GM titles.

    The USA has a much larger population than Brazil, Germany, and other powers in football (soccer).
    Does the lack of success of the USA in international football show the athletic inferiority of Americans?
  12. Standard memberchaney3
    Bring it on.......
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    03 Aug '17 00:31
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    For many years, someone looking superficially at FIDE lists would get quite a misleading
    impression of chess in China. For various reasons (distance, money, politics), it was
    extremely difficult for even the best Chinese players to participate in international tournaments.
    (Western tournaments typically did not invite Chinese, which has become less im ...[text shortened]... lack of success of the USA in international football show the athletic inferiority of Americans?
    You seem to take great effort, once again, to defend the Chinese here.

    Are you Chinese? And has anyone here said something about them that has bothered you?
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    03 Aug '17 00:472 edits
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    You seem to take great effort, once again, to defend the Chinese here.

    Are you Chinese? And has anyone here said something about them that has bothered you?
    I speak up for the oppressed or misunderstood, particularly when no else's willing or able to do so.
    I often have defended the Palestinians against unfair attacks by racist supporters of Israel.
    Does that mean that I must be Palestinian?

    In fact, I have spoken out on behalf of many diverse peoples, including for some causes
    of which you almost certainly never have heard. When a cause becomes popular, I
    tend to regard it as less worthwhile of my time to support it because there already are
    enough people to support it. At least several other writers here speak out against
    anti-black racism; I am the only writer who consistently criticizes anti-Asian racism.
  14. Joined
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    03 Aug '17 02:48
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    I speak up for the oppressed or misunderstood, particularly when no else's willing or able to do so.
    I often have defended the Palestinians against unfair attacks by racist supporters of Israel.
    Does that mean that I must be Palestinian?

    In fact, I have spoken out on behalf of many diverse peoples, including for some causes
    of which you almost certa ...[text shortened]... against
    anti-black racism; I am the only writer who consistently criticizes anti-Asian racism.
    But you don't mind racism aimed at whites.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    03 Aug '17 03:55
    Originally posted by @eladar
    But you don't mind racism aimed at whites.
    Here's a shovel. Dig that hole a little deeper, k?
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