Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Behind the scenes
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    13 Oct '18 15:23
    - you can't tell them very much.

    Why is this? Why is it that this man who has done and said things that would have gotten most presidents, regardless of political affiliation impeached, and/or jailed remains so popular with his supporters? In a word: Religion. Donald Trump's supporters are convinced he alone is GOD's chosen instrument, sent from heaven to bring America back to that time when true Christian values were the norm in America, where everyone pulled their own weight, where law and order was respected without question, and so forth. Trump's supporters are willing to overlook everything he says or does because of this. As a Christian myself, I find this twisting and distorting the true meaning of scripture, and using this mixed package of scripture and lies as a political tool to be repulsive. An excellent example of this hypocrisy is the new philosophy among Conservative evangelicals:

    Lying is all right as long as it serves a higher purpose:

    Yes, we know all about that business about not bearing false witness in the Ten Commandments, but that was a very long time ago. Can’t we get beyond that? Truth and truthiness are overrated. After all, did it really matter that the “birther” nonsense was hokum? Not at all. It enraged those godless liberals and launched our brother in Christ Donald Trump toward the presidency.

    Immigrants are scum:

    We grant that Jesus said something about welcoming the stranger and feeding the hungry. And Leviticus says: “The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself.” But our careful study of scriptural texts has led us to conclude that the almighty had Norwegians in mind, not Mexicans or Salvadorians.

    Vulgarity is a sign of strength and resolve:

    The president’s scatological comments about Haiti and African nations provided a welcome relief to the rhetoric of those coddling the so-called Dreamers. As Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, noted, Brother Trump was “right on target”.

    The sad thing about all this is Trump's supporters actually believe this trash. They'll go to church, clutching their little bibles and pray with all their hearts that this gutter mouthed, womanizing, draft dodging scamster, who is looked upon by other world leaders as an inferior version of P.T Barnum will succeed in his quest to enrich the 1% at their expense, strip them of any health care they had under Obama, and allow corporate America to pump their toxic garbage into our water and air far more than before.

    If millions of people think someone is a deity, it doesn't matter what their chosen one does or says, because it's automatically the right thing every time.

    That's why you can always tell a Trump voter, but you can't tell them very much.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/18/donald-trump-evangelicals-code-of-ethics

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/opinion/trump-christian-right-values.html
  2. Joined
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    13 Oct '18 16:16
    @mchill said
    - you can't tell them very much.

    Why is this? Why is it that this man who has done and said things that would have gotten most presidents, regardless of political affiliation impeached, and/or jailed remains so popular with his supporters? In a word: Religion. Donald Trump's supporters are convinced he alone is GOD's chosen instrument, sent from heaven to bring America bac ...[text shortened]... icals-code-of-ethics

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/opinion/trump-christian-right-values.html
    This clown has someone write a 375 page book on how to take your ball and go home.
    And then has the audacity to call it "art".

    You've got to hand this to him.
    He has balls !! 😀
  3. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    13 Oct '18 19:32
    If you would like some insight into what it is about Trump that you don't get, you could read this article. It was written by a liberal, and is a good read IMO.

    https://warontherocks.com/2018/10/trump-and-the-end-of-smugness
  4. SubscriberWajoma
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    13 Oct '18 20:361 edit
    @mchill said
    - you can't tell them very much.

    Why is this? Why is it that this man who has done and said things that would have gotten most presidents, regardless of political affiliation impeached, and/or jailed remains so popular with his supporters? In a word: Religion. Donald Trump's supporters are convinced he alone is GOD's chosen instrument, sent from heaven to bring America bac ...[text shortened]... icals-code-of-ethics

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/opinion/trump-christian-right-values.html
    What drives the Trump phenomenon?

    Left whingers please hold up a mirror and look into it. You drive the Trump phenomenon. suzi, Kaka Notion, sonhouse, vivify, mchill, zalooney... colbert, kimmel, whoopi, the view, CNN.... these are what drives the Trump phenomenon.
  5. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    13 Oct '18 20:50
    @wajoma said
    What drives the Trump phenomenon?

    Left whingers please hold up a mirror and look into it. You drive the Trump phenomenon. suzi, Kaka Notion, sonhouse, vivify, mchill, zalooney... colbert, kimmel, whoopi, the view, CNN.... these are what drives the Trump phenomenon.
    Amen.

    And they are too smug to see they're being laughed at.
  6. Germany
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    13 Oct '18 21:04
    @wajoma said
    What drives the Trump phenomenon?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  7. Germany
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    13 Oct '18 21:05
    @sleepyguy said
    Amen.

    And they are too smug to see they're being laughed at.
    What do you think you are proving by voting against your interests?
  8. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    13 Oct '18 23:26
    @kazetnagorra said
    What do you think you are proving by voting against your interests?
    The king of smug. Right on time.
  9. Subscriberkmax87
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    14 Oct '18 00:41
    @mchill said
    Trump's supporters are convinced he alone is GOD's chosen
    Two objectively provable coincidences reinforce this view. On the day of his inauguration, if you include his birthday into the calculation, Trump was exactly 70 years, 7 months and 7 days old. This seemed a sign enough for many, but when you note that Trump was inaugurated in the Hebrew year, 5777 what more did God have to do to give them a sign?

    777 twice, must have seemed irresistible. Add to that a pro life stance, repeal and replace and lowered taxes, I think the Christians who helped vote him in are happy with two Trump's. The rabble rousing, populist, TV celebrity, that says outrageous things to cut through and get your attention, and the other Trump that gets things done.

    Corporate tax rate, 21%, corporate America swimming in cash, stock market keeps making higher highs...check.

    Trump's chaotic foreign policy. America first. Isis and North Korea neutralised....check.

    Trade wars, NAFTA 2.0 slightly better than 1.0. Slightly better is still better than more of the same...check

    Yes its brutal, yes it's ugly, but many will probably say absolutely necessary.

    The challenge for the Democrats will be how to wrest the allegiance of the Christian vote away from Trump without making him seem a martyr to a higher cause. As much as there is a strong Christian Right, the sleeping moderate Christian Left needs to be energized to espouse a less selfish vision of the Christ they all purportedly serve.
  10. SubscriberWajoma
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    14 Oct '18 01:131 edit
    @kazetnagorra said
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    Yes, I agree. It would have been better if you'd been able to express your ideas or if you'd made some comment on the link, but you're right, many left whingers are suffering from this delusion. I would go further and say it's an affliction of all nanny knows best control freaks, both left and right wing.
  11. Germany
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    14 Oct '18 14:17
    @wajoma said
    Yes, I agree. It would have been better if you'd been able to express your ideas or if you'd made some comment on the link, but you're right, many left whingers are suffering from this delusion. I would go further and say it's an affliction of all nanny knows best control freaks, both left and right wing.
    Daniel Kahneman's popular-scientific book Thinking, Fast and Slow (which I highly recommend) describes our current understanding of how people make decisions.

    One kind of decision-making process is known as substitution, and it is closely related to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It works as follows: when people are faced with a difficult decision requiring information or knowledge they do not possess, they will often (subconsciously) replace the question they are pondering by a loosely related, but simpler question.

    This type of decision-making is especially prevalent in politics, because it requires people to answer the question "which set of policy ideas is optimal when it comes to socio-economic outcomes?" - an extremely difficult question only a handful of people are qualified to answer. If people genuinely attempted to answer this question, Hillary Clinton would have won by an enormous landslide and all seats in Congress would have been taken by Democrats (or perhaps a sensible alternative to Democrats would have arisen), since people would have looked to expert opinion when it comes to socio-economic policy. Instead, the question is replaced by other questions, such as "do I identify more as Democrat or Republican?", "which candidate do I (dis)like?" or "how do I feel about immigrants/minorities?"
  12. Standard membershavixmir
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    14 Oct '18 14:371 edit
    To vote against your interests, just because others are smug, is surely a definition of stupidity.

    Just because the smug people are standing on the bridge, is not a very good reason to jump off it.

    Just listen to the right-wing trailer trash on this site or fox news... no wonder people are getting smug.

    The American right is the most violent, pathetic, noisy and moronic bunch of retards to ever have polluted the planet since the 1940’s.

    All they do is start wars, adhere to back-dated religiously based concepts, screw the world and buy guns.

    The American alt-right makes ISIS and the Taliban look like liberals and inbred dogs with doggy downs-syndrome look like intellectuals.

    Indeed. I’ve flushed turds down lavatories with larger IQ’s than the American right-wingers on this site.
    And I’ve stepped on faeces with more agreeable personalities too.
  13. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    14 Oct '18 17:04
    @shavixmir said
    To vote against your interests, just because others are smug, is surely a definition of stupidity.

    Just because the smug people are standing on the bridge, is not a very good reason to jump off it.

    Just listen to the right-wing trailer trash on this site or fox news... no wonder people are getting smug.

    The American right is the most violent, pathetic, noisy and mo ...[text shortened]... rican right-wingers on this site.
    And I’ve stepped on faeces with more agreeable personalities too.
    The smugness, you two fools, is in believing you are a better judge of my own interests than I am. But WHATEVER boys! Keep that smug hate flowing. It helps my causes more than yours.
  14. Germany
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    14 Oct '18 17:08
    @sleepyguy said
    The smugness, you two fools, is in believing you are a better judge of my own interests than I am. But WHATEVER boys! Keep that smug hate flowing. It helps my causes more than yours.
    Suppose you need brain surgery. Who would you trust more to know what techniques to apply for successful surgery, yourself or a brain surgeon?
  15. Zugzwang
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    14 Oct '18 19:02
    @kazetnagorra said
    Suppose you need brain surgery. Who would you trust more to know what techniques to apply for successful surgery, yourself or a brain surgeon?
    (KazetNagorra replied to Sleepyguy.)

    When there's a need to know or understand more about something, however complex,
    or obscure, in history, many, if not most, people here prefer to trust a consensus
    of ignorant laymen on the internet rather than a consensus of academic historians
    who specialize in that historical subject.
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