Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. The Catbird's Seat
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    15 Apr '16 23:56
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Sh76, thanks for your thoughtful comment, with which I generally concur.

    When I (a non-Zionist) have sung 'Hatikvah', I can imagine myself in the position of a
    Jew who felt oppressed (perhaps even fearing for the survival of the Jewish people)
    in the past (before 1948). But the modern state of Israel should have a national anthem
    whose lyrics can ap ...[text shortened]... I think
    that criticism is warranted and I can praise (as here) when I think that is warranted.
    Relieved to see bill getting the brunt of Duchess64's hatred for a while.
  2. Standard memberbill718
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    16 Apr '16 09:392 edits
    P.S. I expect the lying troll Bill718 to ignore or deny the fact that I criticize when I think
    that criticism is warranted and I can praise (as here) when I think that is warranted.

    Yes indeed. Communication from the lying troll bill718 is often flawed, deeply inferior, but this is about National Anthems, not about the lying troll bill718. National Anthems are music, and music is an art form, much like painting, or the theatre. There is no way to determine which piece of music is superior to another. Therefore, much as I enjoy Oh Canada, I would say it is neither better or worse than other national anthems. (Just a deeply flawed and inferior opinion from the lying troll bill718) 🙂
  3. Joined
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    16 Apr '16 14:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I have sung 'Hatikvah' on occasion, but I have to say that I understand well that a
    non-Jewish (usually Arab) citizen of Israel may feel uncomfortable with some of its lyrics.
    The question is whether Israel should be regarded as a nation of all its citizens or just
    as a state for the Jewish people. 'Hatikvah' emphasizes the Jewish character of Israel,
    and Arab citizens of Israel (unlike Zionists) might well regard it as triumphalist.
    You say you have sung Hatikvah on occasions and you sung La Marseillaise in your childhood .
    You have Chinese heritage ,do you struggle with your identity ?
    Probably that's what makes you so nasty ,maybe ?
  4. Subscribermoonbus
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    16 Apr '16 19:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Moonbus is an extremely arrogant disingenuous ignoramus who's far too insecure to admit his error.
    I doubt that Moonbus even was aware of the existence of 'Advance Australia Fair'.
    I have heard 'Advance Australia Fair' at official ceremonies in Australia. Has Moonbus ever heard it?

    And Moonbus's disingenuous attempt to excuse his ignorance makes a fl ...[text shortened]... ngs).
    If Scotland does become an independent nation, it will adopt an official national anthem.
    Bob made no restriction on anthems or nations being "official", and we've now had four examples of anthems (including Dixie) commonly associated with identifiable nations. The operative term in the thread title is "your favorite", and I've said which one is mine. You've done nothing but nitpick and gripe; got a bee in your bonnet, eh?
  5. Zugzwang
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    16 Apr '16 19:452 edits
    Originally posted by st dominics preview to SERGEANTPMAIN
    Indeed, Sarge
    'Dixieland', the unofficial anthem of the CSA has a certain lilt
    http;//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)

    "African Americans have frequently challenged 'Dixie' as a racist relic of the Confederacy
    and a reminder of decades of white domination and segregation. These feelings were
    amplified when white opponents to civil rights began answering songs such as 'We Shall Overcome'
    with ('Dixie' )."
    --Wikipedia

    No wonder many fanatical supporters of the CSA like to sing (or whistle) 'Dixie'.

    While I disapprove, of course, of censoring 'Dixie', people should be aware that 'Dixie'
    seems regarded as offensive and racist by a considerable number of people in the USA.
  6. Zugzwang
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    16 Apr '16 19:49
    Originally posted by moonbus
    Bob made no restriction on anthems or nations being "official", and we've now had four examples of anthems (including Dixie) commonly associated with identifiable nations. The operative term in the thread title is "your favorite", and I've said which one is mine. You've done nothing but nitpick and gripe; got a bee in your bonnet, eh?
    I think that Moonbus wrongly believed that 'Waltzing Matilda' is Australia's official national anthem,
    and he has been doing his utmost ever since to divert attention from his ignorant error.

    I have enjoyed singing 'Waltzing Matilda'. I know, however, that Australian voters rejected
    it in favour of 'Advance Australia Fair' when they chose their official national anthem.
  7. Standard membershavixmir
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    16 Apr '16 19:50
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http;//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)

    "African Americans have frequently challenged 'Dixie' as a racist relic of the Confederacy
    and a reminder of decades of white domination and segregation. These feelings were
    amplified when white opponents to civil rights began answering songs such as 'We Shall Overcome'
    with ('Dixie' )."
    --Wikipedia

    No ...[text shortened]... t 'Dixie'
    seems regarded as offensive and racist by a considerable number of people in the USA.
    Yeah, however, a great many people in the US are obviously mad.

    God save the queen is an anti-Scottish song.
    You don't see Scots complaining about it...

    *ahum*
  8. wherever I am needed
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    16 Apr '16 19:582 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http;//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)

    "African Americans have frequently challenged 'Dixie' as a racist relic of the Confederacy
    and a reminder of decades of white domination and segregation. These feelings were
    amplified when white opponents to civil rights began answering songs such as 'We Shall Overcome'
    with ('Dixie' )."
    --Wikipedia

    No ...[text shortened]... t 'Dixie'
    seems regarded as offensive and racist by a considerable number of people in the USA.
    well, as 'Dixie' was the unofficial anthem of the CSA. it is hardly surprising that it attracts controversy.

    from the same highly informative 'wiki' page that D64 chooses to cherrypick her little treasures, she fails to mention that 'Dixie' was a 'favourite of Abe Lincoln's' and that he 'played it at some of his political rallies and (bizarrely) at the surrender of Robert E Lee'.

    maybe the latter was done mockingly?

    does D64 consider this evidence that Lincoln was a supporter of the *racist relic of the Confederacy*?

    Or that Elvis and Bob Dylan, who have sung the song in recent times , share these beliefs?

    The song has no racist lyrics, makes no reference to slavery. Check them out on your wiki page.

    This thread is about favourite (sp) National Anthems, and if me and Sarge like Dixie, then we like Dixie. End of.
  9. Zugzwang
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    16 Apr '16 20:001 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Yeah, however, a great many people in the US are obviously mad.

    God save the queen is an anti-Scottish song.
    You don't see Scots complaining about it...

    *ahum*
    But the 18th century lyrics in 'God Save the Queen (or King)' about
    "May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush.." are no longer sung.

    Referring to 'Dixie',
    "The tune's minstrel-show origins have created a strong association of 'Dixie' with the Old South...
    As a result, some today perceive the song as offensive and racist while others see it as
    an honorable part of Southern heritage."
    --Wikipedia
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Apr '16 20:01
    Originally posted by st dominics preview
    well, as 'Dixie' was the unofficial anthem of the CSA. it is hardly surprising that it attracts controversy.

    from the same highly informative 'wiki' page that D64 chooses to cherrypick her little treasures, she fails to mention that 'Dixie' was a 'favourite of Abe Lincoln's' and that he 'played it at some of his political rallies and (bizarrel ...[text shortened]... out favourite (sp) National Anthems, and if me and Sarge like Dixie, then we like Dixie. End of.
    Not meaning to be argumentative, but the 'land of cotton' part could be taken by some people as a grinding reminder of their great great great grandparents being slaves of the cotton trade.
  11. Subscribermoonbus
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    16 Apr '16 20:07
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I think that Moonbus wrongly believed that 'Waltzing Matilda' is Australia's official national anthem,
    and he has been doing his utmost ever since to divert attention from his ignorant error.

    I have enjoyed singing 'Waltzing Matilda'. I know, however, that Australian voters rejected
    it in favour of 'Advance Australia Fair' when they chose their official national anthem.
    I never said, implied, or believed that Waltzing Matilda was official. You are the one who has been harping on an arbitrary definition "official".

    Waltzing Matilda is as much an anthem commonly associated with a nation as are Dixie and Jerusalem.
  12. Zugzwang
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    16 Apr '16 20:07
    Originally posted by st dominics preview
    well, as 'Dixie' was the unofficial anthem of the CSA. it is hardly surprising that it attracts controversy.

    from the same highly informative 'wiki' page that D64 chooses to cherrypick her little treasures, she fails to mention that 'Dixie' was a 'favourite of Abe Lincoln's' and that he 'played it at some of his political rallies and (bizarrel ...[text shortened]... out favourite (sp) National Anthems, and if me and Sarge like Dixie, then we like Dixie. End of.
    As usual, St Dominics Preview, a fanatical supporter of the CSA, has misrepresented what I wrote.

    I am well aware that opinions are divided about whether 'Dixie' is offensive or racist.
    I was just informing people *not* to be too surprised by a negative response to 'Dixie'.
    (Personally, I don't object to singing 'Dixie', but I would be careful about the context.)

    St Dominics Preview should feel free to sing 'Dixie', alone, at the top of his lungs at a
    rally of black men for 'Black Lives Matter' in the USA. Then he should feel to explain to
    them why 'Dixie' is neither offensive or racist. Then he could report the responses.
  13. wherever I am needed
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    16 Apr '16 20:081 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Not meaning to be argumentative, but the 'land of cotton' part could be taken by some people as a grinding reminder of their great great great grandparents being slaves of the cotton trade.
    Yes..it also mentions 'Injun batter', a clear reference to assaulting Native Americans

    (in UK, to 'batter' someone is to attack and harm them ~ don't know if it 'crosses the pond' well!)

    my tongue is FIRMLY in cheek
  14. wherever I am needed
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    16 Apr '16 20:11
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    As usual, St Dominics Preview, a fanatical supporter of the CSA, has misrepresented what I wrote.

    I am well aware that opinions are divided about whether 'Dixie' is offensive or racist.
    I was just informing people *not* to be too surprised by a negative response to 'Dixie'.
    (Personally, I don't object to singing 'Dixie', but I would be careful about t ...[text shortened]... plain to
    them why 'Dixie' is neither offensive or racist. Then he could report the responses.
    D64 ~ I will leave it to others to decide whether my defence of Dixie is a misrepresentation of your post earlier.

    No comment on Abe's love of the tune?

    Or, really, any debate at all about any of the points raised

    No change there then
  15. Standard membershavixmir
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    16 Apr '16 20:12
    Originally posted by st dominics preview
    Yes..it also mentions 'Injun batter', a clear reference to assaulting Native Americans

    (in UK, to 'batter' someone is to attack and harm them ~ don't know if it 'crosses the pond' well!)

    my tongue is FIRMLY in cheek
    But to batter a fish is coating it before deep frying it...
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