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Debates Forum

  1. 15 Jul '13 21:53
    If hate speech is defined as speech that intentionally and needlessly enflames people, then I'd say that anything that classifies the Zimmerman case as anything but self defense is hate speech. To classify it as anything else is simply an attempt to enflame race hate and race anger. This is hate speech.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2364493/NAACP-convention-held-just-miles-site-George-Zimmerman-trial-unofficial-Justice-For-Trayvon-rally.html

    The Federal government needs to go after the NAACP for its use of hate speech classifying TM is a modern day lynching.

    Any chance of the liberal government going after lefists for their hate speech?
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Jul '13 23:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If hate speech is defined as speech that intentionally and needlessly enflames people, then I'd say that anything that classifies the Zimmerman case as anything but self defense is hate speech. To classify it as anything else is simply an attempt to enflame race hate and race anger. This is hate speech.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2364493/NAA ...[text shortened]... lynching.

    Any chance of the liberal government going after lefists for their hate speech?
    Gee why didn't the Federal Government go after all the hate speechers who said that OJ Simpson was a murderer after the jury acquitted him?
  3. 16 Jul '13 01:23
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Gee why didn't the Federal Government go after all the hate speechers who said that OJ Simpson was a murderer after the jury acquitted him?
    Hate speech is perfectly legal so long as it doesn't incite violence, or other public danger.
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    16 Jul '13 01:33
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Hate speech is perfectly legal so long as it doesn't incite violence, or other public danger.
    So you agree with Eladar's statement that:

    that anything that classifies the Zimmerman case as anything but self defense is hate speech.
  5. 16 Jul '13 01:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So you agree with Eladar's statement that:

    that anything that classifies the Zimmerman case as anything but self defense is hate speech.
    No. If I meant that I would have said it.
  6. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    16 Jul '13 14:48
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So you agree with Eladar's statement that:

    that anything that classifies the Zimmerman case as anything but self defense is hate speech.
    I think the larger point is that racism in the black community is not only tolerated, but celebrated by the left, and stoked continually by the liberal media.
  7. 16 Jul '13 14:57
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If hate speech is defined as speech that intentionally and needlessly enflames people [...]
    Alas, it's not. For the record, I oppose any and all kinds of "hate speech" laws.
  8. 16 Jul '13 19:42
    Originally posted by sasquatch672 to No1Marauder
    I think the larger point is that racism in the black community is not only tolerated, but celebrated by the left, and stoked continually by the liberal media.
    I think that's another exaggeration by you (Sasquatch672).

    But I have to say that some African American public figures seem to
    receive less criticism than they deserve on account of other Americans
    apparently being afraid of being denounced as racist if they were to
    criticize them at all.

    In a non-political field, Serena Williams, an African American tennis star,
    has long displayed poor sportsmanship. Indeed, sometimes she has acted
    like an intimidating bully (such as by her tirade against a tennis umpire).
    While she has received some criticism and punishment for her bad conduct,
    Serena Williams seems to have received less criticism than she would if she
    were a white or (of all possibilities) an Asian tennis star who had said and
    done the same things. Why not? Apart from the fact that she's the most
    successful recent American woman tennis player and Americans tend to be
    reluctant to criticize their champions, I suspect that Serena Williams and
    some of her supporters would be inclined to accuse her critics of racism
    if their criticisms became too persistent or irritating.

    Should Serena Williams's misconduct be excused because she supposedly
    experienced racism as a young tennis player? She might well have
    experienced some racism. As a young tennis player of Chinese heritage
    in a nearly all-white US junior tennis circuit, Michael Chang experienced
    racism too (for which he received little or no sympathy), and he never
    behaved as badly as Serena Williams. Arthur Ashe and Althea Gibson were
    African-American tennis stars when the USA was significantly more racist,
    and I strongly suspect that they experienced more racism than Serena
    Williams. But, unlike Serena Williams, Arthur Ashe and Althea Gibson
    always maintained high standards of sportsmanship. Even Venus Williams,
    Serena's own sister, who presumably experienced the same kind of racism,
    has not behaved as badly as Serena Williams. So I would submit that
    Serena Williams's unsportsmanlike conduct should not be excused by
    claiming (I am *not* saying she has done this) she has experienced racism
    in her past.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    16 Jul '13 19:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I think that's another exaggeration by you (Sasquatch672).

    But I have to say that some African American public figures seem to
    receive less criticism than they deserve on account of other Americans
    apparently being afraid of being denounced as racist if they were to
    criticize them at all.

    In a non-political field, Serena Williams, an African Ameri by
    claiming (I am *not* saying she has done this) she has experienced racism
    in her past.


    The idea that black athletes receive some preferential treatment in the media because media types are afraid of being called "racist" is refuted every single day on talk radio and ESPN.
  10. 16 Jul '13 20:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder


    The idea that black athletes receive some preferential treatment in the media because media types are afraid of being called "racist" is refuted every single day on talk radio and ESPN.
    It's time again for No1Marauder to build another 'strawman'.

    For the record, I did *not* claim that *every* African American athlete
    'receives some preferential treatment' in the US media. I am well aware
    that many African American athletes have been criticized in many ways.
    Indeed, with regard to Tyson Gay's recent doping scandal, I don't believe
    that he has received any preferential treatment as an African American.

    My specific example was about Serena Williams. I know that some
    American chess players (including a semi-retired lawyer and judge in RHP)
    have told me that they regard Serena Williams as having displayed poor
    sportsmanship (for which she seems insincerely repentant), but they also
    said they prefer not to criticize her in public on account of their fears of
    the perceived 'race card'.

    Did No1Marauder have to practise to develop his favourite sneer
    or does it come naturally and effortlessly to him?
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    16 Jul '13 22:56
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's time again for No1Marauder to build another 'strawman'.

    For the record, I did *not* claim that *every* African American athlete
    'receives some preferential treatment' in the US media. I am well aware
    that many African American athletes have been criticized in many ways.
    Indeed, with regard to Tyson Gay's recent doping scandal, I don't believe
    ...[text shortened]... ise to develop his favourite sneer
    or does it come naturally and effortlessly to him?
    Gee, keep attacking me and those thumbs up for your insipid posts will really rack up.

    Serena gets as much criticism as she deserves. Her infractions are generally minor and in the heat of the moment. She's not exactly John McEnroe or Ilie Natase out there.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Jul '13 23:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's time again for No1Marauder to build another 'strawman'.

    For the record, I did *not* claim that *every* African American athlete
    'receives some preferential treatment' in the US media. I am well aware
    that many African American athletes have been criticized in many ways.
    Indeed, with regard to Tyson Gay's recent doping scandal, I don't believe
    ise to develop his favourite sneer
    or does it come naturally and effortlessly to him?
    I think the lack of criticism Serena has gotten is more a product of the US sports fan's disinterest in tennis than anything else. Also, the US is so weak in tennis right now as compared to 20, 30 and 40 years ago that there's just little appetite for vilifying one of the few great American players for poor sportsmanship.

    Terrell Owens and Barry Bonds have gotten ripped as badly as any athlete, save perhaps for Alex Rodriguez.
  13. 17 Jul '13 00:41 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    I think the lack of criticism Serena has gotten is more a product of the US sports fan's disinterest in tennis than anything else. Also, the US is so weak in tennis right now as compared to 20, 30 and 40 years ago that there's just little appetite for vilifying one of the few great American players for poor sportsmanship.

    Terrell Owens and Barry Bonds have gotten ripped as badly as any athlete, save perhaps for Alex Rodriguez.
    "there's just little appetite for vilifying one of the few great American
    players for poor sportsmanship."
    --Sh76

    I *already* mentioned that as one reason why she's not criticized more.
    "...she's (Serena Williams) the most successful recent American woman
    tennis player and Americans tend to be reluctant to criticize their
    champions."
    --Duchess64 (page 1, post 8)

    But it's not a universal sentiment among Americans. I know an American
    chess master (who writes a rather well-known blog) who told me that he
    regards Serena Williams as such a terrible sportsman (or sportswoman)
    that he can hardly wait for her to be eliminated in her next tournament.
    (Yes, I recall that Sh76 greatly admired Lance Armstrong too.)

    Also, I suspect that the international tennis authorities have been reluctant
    or unwilling to punish Serena Williams more harshly because they know that
    she's the greatest female 'drawing card' that tennis has toward Americans.
    American television wants to show Serena Williams playing tennis, not
    have her not playing after being suspended for abusing a tennis official.
    Would tennis be better off financially by making American television happier?

    I hope that you (Sh76) have not fallen for the 'strawman' that No1Marauder
    set up to attack my post. I never claimed that *every* African American
    athlete has been spared from criticism.
  14. 17 Jul '13 00:56 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Gee, keep attacking me and those thumbs up for your insipid posts will really rack up.

    Serena gets as much criticism as she deserves. Her infractions are generally minor and in the heat of the moment. She's not exactly John McEnroe or Ilie Natase out there.
    No1Marauder continues his dishonest distortions and usual insults.
    I note with disdain that No1Marauder has, of course, refused to admit
    that he set up a 'strawman' in attacking my original post in this thread.

    It's No1Marauder who was first to attack me personally in this thread,
    as he also has done in some other threads recently.

    Next, I note that No1Marauder, a white American man, seems to be
    attempting to play to the crowd. I know quite well that this forum is
    dominated by white men, largely Americans. And I suspect that even
    most 'conservative' white American men would have a sense of solidarity
    with No1Marauder, another white American man, that they would not have
    with me. But white American men are a small minority of people in this
    world, and I feel disinclined to play any 'suck up' games toward them.

    'Serena (Williams) gets as much criticism as she deserves.'
    --No1Marauder

    That's very arguable at best. Some Americans (including a semi-retired
    judge who plays and used to post at RHP) have told me that they believe
    that Serena Williams should have been punished more on account of her
    personal abuses against tennis officials at the 2009 and 2011 US Opens.
    Quite recently, Serena Williams has again landed in 'hot water' on account
    of her comments appearing to blame a teenage girl who was raped.

    I cannot recall (which is not to say that I am old enough to remember their
    tennis careers in detail) Arthur Ashe or Althea Gibson (who presumably
    experienced more racism than Serena Williams) ever behaving as badly as
    Serena Williams has done.

    "That's nonsense....No one this side of Stormfront buys the 'one drop'
    criterion anymore."
    --No1Marauder (writing about Tiger Woods and his identity)

    "What I realized is that even though I'm mathematically Asian--if anything--
    if you have one drop of black blood in the United States, you're black."
    --Tiger Woods (quoted in 'Sports Illustrated'
  15. 20 Jul '13 01:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I think that's another exaggeration by you (Sasquatch672).

    But I have to say that some African American public figures seem to
    receive less criticism than they deserve on account of other Americans
    apparently being afraid of being denounced as racist if they were to
    criticize them at all.

    In a non-political field, Serena Williams, an African Ameri by
    claiming (I am *not* saying she has done this) she has experienced racism
    in her past.
    If you think Serena Williams is bad, you don't remember John McEnroe. You are truly remarkable, as nobody else gets me on the side of No1.

    Generally there are much fewer eruptions in tennis due to the technology watching on the line shots. The players know, and don't throw tantrums about bad calls as often as in the past.