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  1. 14 Feb '14 23:07
    Hello.

    I was just wondering, if as Black I normally play the Caro-Kann and the Slav (but I slightly prefer the Caro-Kann), is it a good idea to answer 1. d4 with 1... c6!?

    I looked in an opening database, but it looks like 1... c6 is extremely rare and is only played 0.3% of the time.
    What's wrong with it? Doesn't it just transpose into either a Slav or a Caro-Kann?

    Does it have a psychological effect on weak opponents? Maybe they will be a little surprised, and thus they will take slightly more time to make their second move, and so it would be an effective subterfuge especially in blitz.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
  2. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    15 Feb '14 01:36
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Hello.

    I was just wondering, if as Black I normally play the Caro-Kann and the Slav (but I slightly prefer the Caro-Kann), is it a good idea to answer 1. d4 with 1... c6!?

    I looked in an opening database, but it looks like 1... c6 is extremely rare and is only played 0.3% of the time.
    What's wrong with it? Doesn't it just transpose into either a ...[text shortened]... it would be an effective subterfuge especially in blitz.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    1..c6 might be rarely played as it is so committal. I think most black players tend to like to keep their cards closer to their chest. 1..Nf6 is far more common as you are waiting to see what system white wishes to adopt before you commit pawns to the centre. A database won't have many games starting with your moves, but if you go a few moves on there will be a lot of transpositions. I would recommend you think about 1..Nf3. When you play black. Do you usually play your kings knight to f3 in all your games? Why not play that first? You can always get ..c6 in a move or two later, but by delaying you give yourself the opportunity to consider playing ..c5 instead (if it is useful) and thus prevent yourself from losing a tempo by having to do it in two moves rather than one...
  3. 23 Feb '14 23:23
    Bump.

    I really hoped my question would get more answers... It's still really puzzling me. I just don't see any disadvantage of playing 1. d4 c6 as long as we're happy playing the Slav and the Caro-Kann...


    @Marinkatomb: I'm sorry but I didn't quiet understand your answer... Particularly this part is confusing: "I would recommend you think about 1..Nf3. When you play black. Do you usually play your kings knight to f3 in all your games?"
    But with Black I answer 1. d4 with the Slav and I answer 1. e4 with the Caro-Kann.
    And with White I play 1. d4. And almost all the time I play my king's Knight to f3 (sometimes I even play 1. Nf3 right on move 1, but it's rare).
  4. Standard member Copope
    Duck
    24 Feb '14 01:12
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Bump.

    I really hoped my question would get more answers... It's still really puzzling me. I just don't see any disadvantage of playing 1. d4 c6 as long as we're happy playing the Slav and the Caro-Kann...


    @Marinkatomb: I'm sorry but I didn't quiet understand your answer... Particularly this part is confusing: "I would recommend you think about 1 ...[text shortened]... ime I play my king's Knight to f3 (sometimes I even play 1. Nf3 right on move 1, but it's rare).
    What he is saying is to think about not just the moves, but the order you play them. This is called transpositions.

    If there are three moves you all-ways make in the Caro-kann, Like ..c6 ; ...Nf6; ...d6. Then try them in a different order. so if does not become the slav or the caro-Kann (where that move may not be good) you don't work agenst yourself.

    Also, You have to consider weather or not your moves are forcing. Do they LEAD to the the opening you want? or will they lead someplace different? Like 1d4;Nf6 2d5. will lead to Alekhine. Are you comfortable with that opining?
  5. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    24 Feb '14 01:32
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Bump.

    I really hoped my question would get more answers... It's still really puzzling me. I just don't see any disadvantage of playing 1. d4 c6 as long as we're happy playing the Slav and the Caro-Kann...


    @Marinkatomb: I'm sorry but I didn't quiet understand your answer... Particularly this part is confusing: "I would recommend you think about 1 ...[text shortened]... ime I play my king's Knight to f3 (sometimes I even play 1. Nf3 right on move 1, but it's rare).
    According to my database 1. d4 c6 has been played in 2,104 games and scores 62.1% (to white). White has tried 15 different things in response, by far the most frequent (1,304 games) was 2. d4, so you can get into the Slav 62% of the time. 3. Nf3 is next most popular (377 games) when 2. .. d5 is also possible and seems to do well. 3. e4 was played in 328 games and you're into the Caro. These 3 lines account for over 90% of games. The next most popular is 2. e3 which cannot be dangerous and was played 26 times. Then there are a few moves which look like reasonable tries for white: 2. g3, 2. Nc3, 2. Bf4, and 2. Bg5. The rest of the moves played are rubbish.

    Based on the results from my database I think you can safely play 1. ... c6. There won't be any big shocks. If you are looking for flexibility then Marinkatomb's suggestion is better, but I can't see any reason that 1. ... c6 is anything other than normal. It's been played by very strong Grandmasters, this is a game from 1977 between Lev Polugaevsky and Victor Kortchnoi: