Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 24 Aug '14 00:03
    Hello.

    I do not understand the second third of the "Hans Berliner's system" section of the Wikipedia article "Chess piece relative value":

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_piece_relative_value#Hans_Berliner.27s_system

    There are different types of doubled pawns; see the diagram. White's doubled pawns on the b-file are the best situation in the diagram, since advancing the pawns and exchanging can get them un-doubled and mobile. The doubled b-pawn is worth 0.75 points. If the black pawn on a6 were on c6, it would not be possible to dissolve the doubled pawn, and it would be worth only 0.5 points. The doubled pawn on f2 is worth about 0.5 points. The second white pawn on the h-file is worth only 0.33 points, and additional pawns on the file would be worth only 0.2 points (Berliner 1999:18–20).




    Could you explain me precisely how much is each pawn worth?




    White's doubled pawns on the b-file are the best situation in the diagram, since advancing the pawns and exchanging can get them un-doubled and mobile. The doubled b-pawn is worth 0.75 points.
    Are both the b2 pawn and the c3 pawn worth 0.75 each? Or is the b2 pawn worth 1 and the b3 pawn worth 0.75? Or is the b2 pawn worth 0.75 and the b3 pawn worth 1?




    If the black pawn on a6 were on c6, it would not be possible to dissolve the doubled pawn, and it would be worth only 0.5 points.
    Are both the b2 pawn and the c3 pawn worth 0.5 each? Or is the b2 pawn worth 1 and the b3 pawn worth 0.5? Or is the b2 pawn worth 0.5 and the b3 pawn worth 1?




    White's doubled pawns on the b-file are the best situation in the diagram, since advancing the pawns and exchanging can get them un-doubled and mobile. [...] If the black pawn on a6 were on c6, it would not be possible to dissolve the doubled pawn.
    I didn't quiet understand that. Could you show me this concretely with moves?




    The doubled pawn on f2 is worth about 0.5 points.
    And how much is the f3 pawn worth? Is the f2 pawn considered as an isolated exchangeable pawn or as an isolated inexangeable pawn?




    The second white pawn on the h-file is worth only 0.33 points
    So the h3 pawn is worth 0.33. But how much is the h2 pawn worth?




    Extra question:

    On the following diagram, how much would the e4 pawn be worth? I only need an approximation. (You can imagine that it is a late middlegame with also two or three pieces for each side, plus one King for each side.)



    And what if it was on e3 instead?




    Thanks in advance for your answers.
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    24 Aug '14 03:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Hello.

    .
    The b2,b3,c3 pawns are worth 2.75 together
    you cannot consider them in isolation.

    Getting rid of either b-pawn would leave you with 2.0
    so from that perspective the b-pawns are both worth 0.75 ...
    but that would make the c-pawn worth 1.25 !! (It isn't)
  3. 24 Aug '14 14:13
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    I do not understand the second third of the "Hans Berliner's system" section of the Wikipedia article "Chess piece relative value"
    It is certainly an unclear and inadequately explained passage.
  4. 01 Sep '14 16:06
    After thinking about it for a while I came up with these penalties and bonus for pawns:

    An isolated pawn gets a penalty of -0.25
    A passed pawn gets a bonus of +0.5
    A doubled exchangeable pawn gets a penalty of -0.25
    A doubled inexchangeable pawn gets a penalty of -0.5

    And concerning doubled pawns: when you have two pawns on the same file, only one of them is considered doubled and gets a penalty, the other one is not considered as a doubled pawn and doesn't receive a penalty for this.

    Using this system we find all the exact same values as in the Wikipedia article (except for the h3 pawn which the Wikipedia article say is worth 0.33 while with my system we get a value of 0.25 which is pretty close anyway).

    What do you think about these average values? Do you agree with them? If not, how much would you think pawns are worth in average depending on if they are doubled, isolated or passed?