1. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
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    28 Jun '10 20:41
    Originally posted by Essex 3
    "A chess game is customarily divided into three parts, the opening, the middle game, and the endgame.
    During the opening you play to establish an advantage.
    In the middle game you try to turn the advantage into a winning position.
    The endgame is when you realize you are going to lose." - Saviely Tartakower.
    sounds about right!
  2. Joined
    19 Jun '06
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    28 Jun '10 20:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what is an endgame tablebase?
    Ken Thompson calls it "Playing chess with God." Seems like the perfect description to me.
  3. Account suspended
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    28 Jun '10 22:30
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    Ken Thompson calls it "Playing chess with God." Seems like the perfect description to me.
    i honestly had to goggle it, it seems like its a system for working out the optimum number of moves for a mate using retrograde analysis with six pieces or less on the board, although it must come under fifty moves. I suppose its an area where computers have really advance chess knowledge. I did wonder when i was following two engines play each other, why they were able to calculate so fast near the end, perhaps they were using these table-bases to do so 🙂
  4. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
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    16907
    29 Jun '10 00:31
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what is an endgame tablebase?
    Tablebases are computer generated analyses of the moves leading to your loss (see above) from all conceivable positions with up to six pieces remaining on the board, and in a few cases seven pieces.
  5. Joined
    19 Jun '06
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    847
    29 Jun '10 01:04
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i honestly had to goggle it, it seems like its a system for working out the optimum number of moves for a mate using retrograde analysis with six pieces or less on the board, although it must come under fifty moves. I suppose its an area where computers have really advance chess knowledge. I did wonder when i was following two engines play each oth ...[text shortened]... re able to calculate so fast near the end, perhaps they were using these table-bases to do so 🙂
    TBs can really be helpful when you're studying endgames with not too many pieces. They can help you out with a lot of "what ifs". (What if I moved here, what happens? )

    But they can suck up a lot of hard drive space. A 5-piece set uses about 7 gigabytes of HD, while a full 6-piece set uses about 1 terabyte (1000 GB) of HD. I only use a 5-piece set; I'm not that much a fanatic about them. On the few occasions when I need a 6-piece lookup. I just use the online Shredder database.
  6. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
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    53223
    29 Jun '10 02:26
    So does anyone have the answer to his original question, what is the win here? I assume it has to do with zugzwang, but don't see it, haven't gone over it with a board yet, too busy with home duties. long story.
  7. Standard memberwormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    We're All Gonna Go!
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    10 Sep '05
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    29 Jun '10 03:04
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So does anyone have the answer to his original question, what is the win here? I assume it has to do with zugzwang, but don't see it, haven't gone over it with a board yet, too busy with home duties. long story.
    read my post.
  8. Joined
    13 Apr '07
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    3644
    29 Jun '10 03:52
    Originally posted by wormwood
    read my post.
    your post stated after rb7 then qd8 does the trick...simply pxq would result...even qe8 then rc7+ and back to b7....the q could check etc. but only perpetually as far as i can see....sure the q vs r ending is indeed elementary but not in this case...the end game databases are supposed to be off limits to the combatments during play so their not supposed to know after b7 black wins in 24 and humans are not computers.....
  9. timed out again
    Joined
    25 Apr '08
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    29 Jun '10 10:03
    Originally posted by dustycat
    your post stated after rb7 then qd8 does the trick...simply pxq would result...even qe8 then rc7+ and back to b7....the q could check etc. but only perpetually as far as i can see....sure the q vs r ending is indeed elementary but not in this case...the end game databases are supposed to be off limits to the combatments during play so their not supposed to know after b7 black wins in 24 and humans are not computers.....
    x2. Tablebases or computer help is not allowed so the players shouldn't know there is a forced win.
  10. Joined
    19 Jun '06
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    847
    29 Jun '10 12:10
    Originally posted by dustycat
    your post stated after rb7 then qd8 does the trick...simply pxq would result...even qe8 then rc7+ and back to b7....the q could check etc. but only perpetually as far as i can see....sure the q vs r ending is indeed elementary but not in this case...the end game databases are supposed to be off limits to the combatments during play so their not supposed to know after b7 black wins in 24 and humans are not computers.....
    If Rb7, then it looks like Qc6 is the move. For example,



    And Black is one step closer to nabbing the pawn. If Rb6+ , then Kxp. However, if White moves the king, it could go something like this:



    And the pawn finally drops. They would have to know their Q vs R game, but I'm assuming they know that. (Wish I did! ) They would also have to go through numerous variations to ensure that they know the outcome, but I'm assuming they did that too.
  11. out on bail
    Joined
    20 Jun '09
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    12298
    29 Jun '10 12:42
    kxp after 92. kb7
  12. Joined
    19 Jun '06
    Moves
    847
    29 Jun '10 12:46
    Originally posted by michael liddle
    kxp after 92. kb7
    Right, either way works.
  13. Standard memberwormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    We're All Gonna Go!
    Joined
    10 Sep '05
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    10228
    29 Jun '10 13:091 edit
    Originally posted by dustycat
    your post stated after rb7 then qd8 does the trick...simply pxq would result...even qe8 then rc7+ and back to b7....the q could check etc. but only perpetually as far as i can see....sure the q vs r ending is indeed elementary but not in this case...the end game databases are supposed to be off limits to the combatments during play so their not supposed to know after b7 black wins in 24 and humans are not computers.....
    oh man, I was wondering a long time what the hell do you mean by pxq, until I realized I'm looking at the board upside down for some unimaginable reason and dropping the queen!! 😵

    it's been the midsummer festival here, which is the biggest holiday in finland. the sun stays up through the night, bonfires are burned, everybody's drunk, and obviously sleeping is not a priority. my brain is still pudding from all that. 3h of sleep last night, so this isn't probably going to go much better...


    edit: loads of useless analysis cut out, as mad rook did much better. I should take a long nap now...
  14. Joined
    13 Apr '07
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    3644
    29 Jun '10 18:28
    thanks Mad Rook for the excellent info...the p falls after 9 moves and the rest would be easy....nice lesson.
  15. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
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    22 Jun '04
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    42677
    29 Jun '10 19:04
    IronMan31 won a similar endgame against me: http://www.redhotpawn.com/gameanalysis/boardhistory.php?gameid=1185140

    It was said of him at the time that he played "advanced chess".
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