# King & Cross-problem

zamba
Posers and Puzzles 27 Apr '03 02:37
1. Zippy B
Living But Weak
07 May '03 00:12
If the king can do everything, ten he can make a rock to big for him to lift and still lift it.
He does however, ruin the all the laws of physics doing so.
Thus it may now be possible to leave the room simply by snaping one's fingers.
ðŸ˜‰
If the king can do everything, then by definition he can exist in any and every state simultaneously. Thus he can make a rock which he can simultaneously lift and be unable to lift. This is a paradox but not necesarily a contradiction (in a similar way that schroedingers cat is both dead and alive until observerd). Therefore, it is illogic to to state that because the paradox exists you can get out of the room by snapping your fingers (there are many known paradox's in our world but I still have to use doors - and the occational window). Personally I'd like to know more about the Banana, but thats just me. ðŸ™‚
2. bbarr
Chief Justice
07 May '03 00:49
Originally posted by Zippy B
If the king can do everything, then by definition he can exist in any and every state simultaneously. Thus he can make a rock which he can simultaneously lift and be unable to lift. This is a paradox but not necesarily a contradiction (in a similar way that schroedingers cat is both dead and alive until observerd). Therefore, it is illogic to to state that b ...[text shortened]... he occational window). Personally I'd like to know more about the Banana, but thats just me. ðŸ™‚
This is a misunderstanding of what the thoguht experiment of schroedinger's cat was supposed to show. On the Copenhagen interpretation, the cat is in one state fully described as {.5 probability dead and .5 probability alive} Quantum mechanics does not allow you to infer from this that the cat is both dead and alive, rather, the cat exists in a probabilistic superposition of states. So, no contradiction, no paradox, but certainly very strange, and difficult to reconcile with our realist metaphysics (&quot;...but he has to be one or the other!&quot;, we whine). Even QM is committed to the las of non-contradiction. Anyway, to say that a being who can do anything can make a rock he can't lift is just to say that he can make a rock that a being who can do anything can't lift. But a being who can't lift something has at least one thing he can't do, wo the task specification is itself a contradiction in terms.
3. 07 May '03 11:32
Originally posted by bbarr
This is a misunderstanding of what the thoguht experiment of schroedinger's cat was supposed to show. On the Copenhagen interpretation, the cat is in one state fully described as {.5 probability dead and .5 probability alive} Quantum mechanics does not allow you to infer from this that the cat is both dead and alive, rather, the cat exists in a probabilistic ...[text shortened]... at least one thing he can't do, wo the task specification is itself a contradiction in terms.
The cat is a GOOD example of how physics acually works (said the physicist): every law / theorm and rule of physics is a mathematical model describing what the 'real' world does. It NEVER defines the world as such, only how it can be estimated / predicted / measured. Applying our concepts of 'alive ' and 'dead' (or any concept of 'this' or 'that'ðŸ˜‰ to a probablistic quantum model will always give you a headache until you accept that it is just a model and not 'real'. e.g. Electron wave particle duality? Paradox? No. We've just used a particle model and a wave model to describe the actions of the same 'thing' and then complained that the two models are different. (PS for those who haven't heard, there is a wave model solution to the photoelectric effect: it was just rather mathematically tricky. Or so I'm told, never read it myself).
4. Zippy B
Living But Weak
09 May '03 19:15
Okay lets get metaphysical. If the king can do anything, then by that definition describing being unable to do something is part of the anything. So inorder for him to do anything that must include failling to do some things. But so as not to contradict the definition he must also be able to succeed at the things that he also fails at. If you want to relate this to the universe in which we live, then just suppose that we are all individual parts of a cosmic conciousness, all individual but ultimately just one thing. I could quite easily find a rock that I could not lift, but some one else can. But if we are both part of the cosmic conciousness then the cosmic conciousness (or God for the religious in the audience) is simultaniously able to lift and not lift the rock.

Disclaimer:- I don't necessarily agree with or belive everything I write.
5. 17 May '03 10:35
Eat the banana &amp; place the skin on the floor. Get the king to put the paper bag on his head so that he can't see. Stand on the skin &amp; slip out of the room while nobody is looking!ðŸ˜›
Discombobulating...
17 May '03 13:44
7. 17 May '03 22:171 edit
Where there is a well there is a way, Since the king can do anything, get him to turn the wall of glass into some meat &amp; the wall of water into bread. Then get him to turn the banana into a knife &amp; small grill. Break up the throne (if it is not made of wood get the king to turn it into wood) &amp; put it in the bucket. Light a piece of wood from the wall of fire &amp; then light the wood in the bucket &amp; put the grill on top. Cover your hair with the paper bag in a hat type fashion. Cut a circle of meat &amp; put it on the grill. Flame grill the meat on both sides. Cut two circles of bread about the same size of the meat &amp; lightly toast on the grill. Put together to make a hamburger. Since it is common know that the king loves hamburgers, feed him lots of them, until he becomes excessively fat &amp; his arteries clog from too much cholestrol so that he dies of a heart attack. Then crown yourself king, now you can do anything, including escaping from the cross shaped room by clicking the heels of your magical shoes (made from blue suede) &amp; they will transport anywhere you like!
I think that covers everthing....................................phew:'(
Discombobulating...
18 May '03 19:30
What if the king is not happy about you trying to leave? ðŸ˜›
9. genius
Wayward Soul
18 May '03 20:46
What if the king is not happy about you trying to leave? ðŸ˜›
yeah-what if he refuses to use his powers for your uses?...
10. 18 May '03 22:34
Get the king to turn the paper pag into a cricket ball and the banana into a bat. Tell him to bowl the ball at you and catch it when you hit it. You're out.
11. 18 May '03 22:36
Get the king to turn the paper bag into a cricket ball and the banana into a bat . Ask him to bowl thew ball at you and catch it when you hit it. You're out ðŸ˜‰
12. 19 May '03 03:41
Originally posted by zamba

OK, here's the problem called the King & Cross-problem:

6. You are in the middle of the room. You have a paper bag and a banana.
How do you get out?
I'd take this to be a painful pun. Out can mean &quot;away from the center or middle.&quot;

To get out might simply mean to go in any direction other than where you are (the middle). The rest of the hub-bub is the usual pun stuff meant to confuse you. :-)
13. genius
Wayward Soul
19 May '03 08:50
Originally posted by plotmaster
I'd take this to be a painful pun. Out can mean "away from the center or middle."

To get out might simply mean to go in any direction other than where you are (the middle). The rest of the hub-bub is the usual pun stuff meant to confuse you. :-)
well, if that's the case, it worked!...
14. 19 May '03 09:23
okay i was patient but now i want the 'answer'. i will go looking for it and, should i find it, i will let you know.
15. 19 May '03 09:43
a cursory search revealed no solutions or cross postings... the east end of the room contains a well and a bucket with which to draw water. possibly you can just eat your banana, put the skin in the paper bag, have a drink of water and leave the room by the exit in the east wall?