Evolution under attack in Texas:

At the college level, at least, I can say that nothing motivates a slacker student to start learning better than getting a big fat F on an exam. Good students, of course, are usually motivated by genuine curiosity.

Originally posted by Eladar
As I explained earlier the perspective of the student is not accurate. Get a job teaching in an average public school and come back and talk to me.

The idea that you should just dump the kids who are not motivated seems to me to further the idea of the richer and poorer scenario, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it widens the intellectual divide.

The only thing separating the rich and poor is low education so that is the first place to attack to bring up the valley of the poor and if it takes putting kids in some kind of intellectual reform school, so be it.

Kids don't know the value of a good education, how could they, not yet being educated.

So it seems to me the best way to deal with those kind of kids is an intellectual rap on the head with a metaphorical two by four.

Maybe, like, you get an F in French, you go back till you get at least a C or B. Don't LET kids tell teachers or parents what they want to do since in most cases they have no real idea what they want and it would not be clear to them for ten years maybe.

Originally posted by sonhouse
The idea that you should just dump the kids who are not motivated seems to me to further the idea of the richer and poorer scenario, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it widens the intellectual divide.

The only thing separating the rich and poor is low education so that is the first place to attack to bring up the valley of the poor and if it ...[text shortened]... ses they have no real idea what they want and it would not be clear to them for ten years maybe.

I didn't say just dump them. They should be given every opportunity to excel.

I'm simply stating that social promotion isn't the answer and simply makes the school system an enabler.

Originally posted by Soothfast
At the college level, at least, I can say that nothing motivates a slacker student to start learning better than getting a big fat F on an exam. Good students, of course, are usually motivated by genuine curiosity.

Oh wow, you mean tell me that if the student wants to pass the class that failing an exam will get the student's attention?

Say it isn't so.

But hey, many kids fail out of college because they don't care. When their parents eventually kick them out on their own they might care.

Originally posted by Eladar
Oh wow, you mean tell me that if the student wants to pass the class that failing an exam will get the student's attention?

Say it isn't so.

But hey, many kids fail out of college because they don't care. When their parents eventually kick them out on their own they might care.

For one thing, American kids have it too easy. They start playing video games at 5, get cell phones at 8, have their own connectivity, who gives a dam about school at that point? Your school has a lot of competition for a child's attention now, not like it was pre-computer days.

Asian kids have a lot of motivation to succeed educationally and the family's work together to get the homework done, older kids helping younger ones, parents helping older ones and so forth. How much of THAT happens to American kids?

Originally posted by sonhouse
For one thing, American kids have it too easy. They start playing video games at 5, get cell phones at 8, have their own connectivity, who gives a dam about school at that point? Your school has a lot of competition for a child's attention now, not like it was pre-computer days.

Asian kids have a lot of motivation to succeed educationally and the family ...[text shortened]... ounger ones, parents helping older ones and so forth. How much of THAT happens to American kids?

Yeah, it's unfortunate that American culture tends to value athletic performance more than academic performance. Also, even when students are pursuing an education, the most prestigious degrees are the easy ones without any scientific content like law or med school.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Yeah, it's unfortunate that American culture tends to value athletic performance more than academic performance. Also, even when students are pursuing an education, the most prestigious degrees are the easy ones without any scientific content like law or med school.

Many kids who don't care about school don't care about sports either. As a matter of fact most kids who don't care about school don't care about sports.

Most of them are more worried about getting their next high.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Yeah, it's unfortunate that American culture tends to value athletic performance more than academic performance. Also, even when students are pursuing an education, the most prestigious degrees are the easy ones without any scientific content like law or med school.

I'm sorry? Law is not an easy option, and med-school contains science...

I don't think your last sentence says what you meant it to say.

Originally posted by sonhouse
For one thing, American kids have it too easy. They start playing video games at 5, get cell phones at 8, have their own connectivity, who gives a dam about school at that point? Your school has a lot of competition for a child's attention now, not like it was pre-computer days.

Asian kids have a lot of motivation to succeed educationally and the family ...[text shortened]... ounger ones, parents helping older ones and so forth. How much of THAT happens to American kids?

You don't see many successful Asians dressed like stoners and getting high either.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I'm sorry? Law is not an easy option, and med-school contains science...

I don't think your last sentence says what you meant it to say.

Where I come from, law is one of the easiest university degrees one can obtain. In the US there are so many lawyers I cannot imagine it is much different.

Med school contains little if any scientific training.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Where I come from, law is one of the easiest university degrees one can obtain. In the US there are so many lawyers I cannot imagine it is much different.

Med school contains little if any scientific training.

Well that's certainly not true here.

There are also much better targets, like media, or business studies.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Well that's certainly not true here.

There are also much better targets, like media, or business studies.

Maybe he means Health and Physical Education Degrees instead of Medical School to become a medical doctor.

Originally posted by Soothfast
It takes, or should take, only minimal wits to insult the likes of Eladar without also insulting all teachers everywhere. Effin' moron.

It takes, or should take, only minimal wits to call someone an "Effin' moron."

It takes, or should take, only minimal wits to realize I was insutling Eladar's entire stance. Effin' moron.