23 Sep '10 16:25>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
Do you think it means intelligence is on the rise or is it a fluke?
Do you think it means intelligence is on the rise or is it a fluke?
Originally posted by sonhouseThere is no doubt that IQ is on the rise as the article states. Many possible reasons are suggested in the article, some of which are not doubt true. For example, in Zambia, I have no doubt that nutrition plays a large role in intelligence and better nutrition over time means higher intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
Do you think it means intelligence is on the rise or is it a fluke?
Originally posted by twhiteheadI wonder if you can quantitatively assign intelligence #'s to the human race as a whole. For instance, you imply that for whatever reason in your region intelligence was lower there than now, maybe for nutritional reasons, whatever. So you have a population in change intelligence wise. So if you chart that for the whole human race there should be an IQ score for the race as a whole say compared to 100 years ago. That should % of college grads now vs then for instance, or the # of scientific paper written by a given population then V now. Would the % of college grads be more of a cultural thing or would it be an indication of increased intelligence?
There is no doubt that IQ is on the rise as the article states. Many possible reasons are suggested in the article, some of which are not doubt true. For example, in Zambia, I have no doubt that nutrition plays a large role in intelligence and better nutrition over time means higher intelligence.
Originally posted by sonhouseI think that if you want to quantitatively assign intelligence #'s, you first have to be very clear about how exactly you define intelligence.
I wonder if you can quantitatively assign intelligence #'s to the human race as a whole. For instance, you imply that for whatever reason in your region intelligence was lower there than now, maybe for nutritional reasons, whatever. So you have a population in change intelligence wise. So if you chart that for the whole human race there should be an IQ sco ...[text shortened]... llege grads be more of a cultural thing or would it be an indication of increased intelligence?
Originally posted by PalynkaYes indeed. Like is it success in school, success in job, success in patents, success in codebreaking, success in languages, success in the arts, what criteria do you use?
I think that if you want to quantitatively assign intelligence #'s, you first have to be very clear about how exactly you define intelligence.
Originally posted by sonhouseI honestly don't know. As you point out, there is a multidimensional aspect to intelligence and so any single number will rely on some arbitrary weights to each dimension. This seems flawed from the start.
Yes indeed. Like is it success in school, success in job, success in patents, success in codebreaking, success in languages, success in the arts, what criteria do you use?
Originally posted by PalynkaBut does it really imply that if a person from the 1920's were given a test today, the average of that day, IQ of 100, would average more like 80 today? Could that be true?
I honestly don't know. As you point out, there is a multidimensional aspect to intelligence and so any single number will rely on some arbitrary weights to each dimension. This seems flawed from the start.
To go back on topic, though, I like to think of the Flynn effect as an improvement in software. The genetic hardware cannot possibly have changed that much in one or two generations, so the improvement must come from how we use that hardware.
Originally posted by sonhouseAgain, it depends how you define intelligence. I think that when most people say intelligence they are thinking of the hardware part ("he is intelligent" as opposed to "he learned how to be intelligent"😉.
But does it really imply that if a person from the 1920's were given a test today, the average of that day, IQ of 100, would average more like 80 today? Could that be true?
The thing is, these scores are not just from countries with recently improved health care, nutrition, better schools and whatnot, it's a world wide thing.
You could make a case for j ...[text shortened]... takes more intelligence to be able to interact with all that, like you say, software changes.
Originally posted by sonhouseWell in my part of the world the percentage of college grads is more or less entirely dependent on the number of colleges available. Everyone goes to college if they can, there just aren't enough colleges to go round, then there is the money side of things too. Not everyone can afford to go to college.
Would the % of college grads be more of a cultural thing or would it be an indication of increased intelligence?
Originally posted by sonhouseThe average person in the 1920s was illiterate and so could not even do an IQ test.
But does it really imply that if a person from the 1920's were given a test today, the average of that day, IQ of 100, would average more like 80 today? Could that be true?
Originally posted by twhiteheadYeah, there is that. You have to have a certain standard of literacy to actually do an IQ test, which by no means says that population is stupid. There are also tests not involving the need to read but they are not used as much, mainly on primates, which have shown in some cases an IQ close to human, in the 80 range for some gorilla's.
The average person in the 1920s was illiterate and so could not even do an IQ test.
Originally posted by EladarI think that goes to show how biased the tests are. There are no differences between Asian brains and Black brains per se but cultural differences abound. Suppose they designed the test around blacks, how to get by in the projects, that kind of thing, how well would an Asian buffered as they are by their family, big kids help little kids with homework, etc., family businesses helping #2 son start some business.
I wonder if there is much of a difference in nutrition in the US. Is say this because in the US there is a about a 15 difference between self identified whites and blacks. Most of the IQ stuff I've read rates races something like this:
blacks < native americans < whites < east asians
Originally posted by sonhouseWhich only highlights the fact that measuring intelligence is not an easy thing to do. There is clearly a massive gap between some aspects of human intelligence and gorilla intelligence, so the IQ difference should equally be large. If the test is measuring something that Gorillas are particularly good at then they may excel. It is difficult to lest the various aspects of intelligence and to give each aspect a fair weighting. Should a great composer or a great chess player be given better rating?
Yeah, there is that. You have to have a certain standard of literacy to actually do an IQ test, which by no means says that population is stupid. There are also tests not involving the need to read but they are not used as much, mainly on primates, which have shown in some cases an IQ close to human, in the 80 range for some gorilla's.