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Science Forum

Science Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    09 Jul '08 23:14
    ID rears it's pathetic head again but more subtle this time, harder to fight in court, calling it now 'Academic Freedom' with no mention of ID or Creationism, instead calling it 'Alternatives to evolution'. It's a cancer pure and simple. Another example of the corruption that is Christianity, to the far right of thinking.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926643.300-new-legal-threat-to-school-science-in-the-us.html
  2. 10 Jul '08 01:00
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    ID rears it's pathetic head again but more subtle this time, harder to fight in court, calling it now 'Academic Freedom' with no mention of ID or Creationism, instead calling it 'Alternatives to evolution'. It's a cancer pure and simple. Another example of the corruption that is Christianity, to the far right of thinking.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926643.300-new-legal-threat-to-school-science-in-the-us.html
    I read the same article last week and found it truely appaling that members of the board making decisions about the science curriculum are known supporters of ID etc

    A cancer.... possibly the best description concerning the ID movement I've heard :0)
  3. 10 Jul '08 03:59
    Another nail in the coffin of US science education.
  4. 10 Jul '08 07:43
    IF ID slips in in american classrooms, in twenty years from now, not much scientific research will happen. Bye bye space exploration.

    What fears me is that a theocratic governement will be in charge, the very same that may hold the finger on the red button of a nuclear strike, only to fulfil the apocalyps and the judgement day as described in Revelations... (Therefore I don't want any nuclears in any country in the world. We don't know what any president will do in the future, elected or not elected.)
  5. 10 Jul '08 13:08
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    IF ID slips in in american classrooms, in twenty years from now, not much scientific research will happen. Bye bye space exploration.

    What fears me is that a theocratic governement will be in charge, the very same that may hold the finger on the red button of a nuclear strike, only to fulfil the apocalyps and the judgement day as described in Revelatio ...[text shortened]... in the world. We don't know what any president will do in the future, elected or not elected.)
    If ID slips into the classroom our kids will grow up having an even vaguer idea of what science really is and the average understanding of science will drop even further - maybe even to the point where "creation science" might be seen as being science.
  6. Standard member flexmore
    Quack Quack Quack !
    10 Jul '08 13:16
    I think it is good if ID ideas are out there.
    My grandma loved ID and all that church stuff ... I learned a lot from her.
    I also learned a lot from my uncle who said that god does not exist.
    I am happy I was exposed to both sides.
  7. 10 Jul '08 13:37
    Everyone is really exposed to both sides though. Everything we hear during childhood is about how God created earth, etc. The strange thing for me is that evolution is not incompatible with a supreme being who started earth and then just let it go. Evolution says nothing about how life started, it speaks only to how we got here.

    The creationists have never seemed to grasp this idea, odd.
  8. Standard member flexmore
    Quack Quack Quack !
    10 Jul '08 13:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kyngj
    Everyone is really exposed to both sides though. Everything we hear during childhood is about how God created earth, etc. The strange thing for me is that evolution is not incompatible with a supreme being who started earth and then just let it go. Evolution says nothing about how life started, it speaks only to how we got here.

    The creationists have never seemed to grasp this idea, odd.
    Often actual timeframes are thrown about ... hardcore evolutionists claim to see back millions of years ... yet many hardcore christian creationists say everything only stated a few thousand years ago.
  9. 10 Jul '08 18:14
    Where do you think our first astronauts went to school? Here, in the US, where prayer WAS part of a public education and most every teacher believed in God as Creator (I base this on my own public schooling and I doubt theirs were any different). And they turned out fine, what with landing on the moon an a tin can and getting back to earth alive with the computer power of a Swatch. ID isn't gonna cripple the future of scientific research.
  10. 10 Jul '08 18:44
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Where do you think our first astronauts went to school? Here, in the US, where prayer WAS part of a public education and most every teacher believed in God as Creator (I base this on my own public schooling and I doubt theirs were any different). And they turned out fine, what with landing on the moon an a tin can and getting back to earth alive with the computer power of a Swatch. ID isn't gonna cripple the future of scientific research.
    Prayer wasn't part of science education was it?

    It is irrelevant what teachers believed, it is relevant what they taught.

    States like Kansas have redefined what science means in order to bring things like ID. Don't you think that's a sign of a problem?

    Back then they also didn't "let the kids decide what to believe" in class, did they?

    They didn't present science vs non-science and claim both were science and let kids think both were equivalent. Did they?
  11. 10 Jul '08 18:57
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Prayer wasn't part of [b]science education was it?

    It is irrelevant what teachers believed, it is relevant what they taught.

    States like Kansas have redefined what science means in order to bring things like ID. Don't you think that's a sign of a problem?

    Back then they also didn't "let the kids decide what to believe" in class, did they? ...[text shortened]... on-science and claim both were science and let kids think both were equivalent. Did they?[/b]
    You are correct--especially your fourth point has horribly gone wrong in our schools today. But I still say my teachers interjected faith into EVERY subject. My Advanced Algebra teacher insisted on praying before class in defiance of the recently passed Supreme Court decision forbidding same. My biology and chemistry teachers consistently referred to God's handiwork, and Evolution being a controversial, unproven concept.
    But all in all, you're right--the more I remember of my school days, the more I realize my teachers DID separate their faiths and the science of the day pretty darn well. (Of course, there WAS the teacher who taught us that the dinosaurs died off because mammals ate all their eggs in the big Ice Age; and then there was my 6th grade teacher who told us NASA's calculations for the Apollo missions had proven that the sun DID stand still on several occasions, just as the Bible records.)
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Do ya think?
    10 Jul '08 20:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    IF ID slips in in american classrooms, in twenty years from now, not much scientific research will happen. Bye bye space exploration.
    It will still happen. The difference is my inner city kids will be doing it while the heartland continues to suckle on our state's teats...if we allow it.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Do ya think?
    10 Jul '08 20:09
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Where do you think our first astronauts went to school? Here, in the US, where prayer WAS part of a public education and most every teacher believed in God as Creator (I base this on my own public schooling and I doubt theirs were any different). And they turned out fine, what with landing on the moon an a tin can and getting back to earth alive with the computer power of a Swatch. ID isn't gonna cripple the future of scientific research.
    Were they taught ID in biology class?
  14. 11 Jul '08 00:39
    Originally posted by flexmore
    Often actual timeframes are thrown about ... hardcore evolutionists claim to see back millions of years ... yet many hardcore christian creationists say everything only stated a few thousand years ago.
    where does the evidence lie? That is the only question.
  15. 11 Jul '08 05:15
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Were they taught ID in biology class?
    I was refering to what I was taught--since our formative years encompassed the same period, my guess is we learned the same curriculum.