Vaccination better than you think

I am totally appalled to read this;
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
"...Swedish authorities actively discouraged people from wearing face masks, which they said would spread panic, ..."
What! "spread panic"!? What a STUPID suggestion! Wearing face masks does NOT "spread panic" and there is no evidence that it does. Do you see people screaming in panic or showing signs of 'panic' in the UK where face masks are often worn? This STUPID suggestion makes me think the Swedish authorities are generally as stupid as Trump.

the link goes on to say;
"...Some doctors who insisted on wearing a mask at work have been reprimanded or even fired...."
I am just appalled! So a doctor telling people to do something to reduce their risk of death is PUNISHED for doing so! Just terrible!

But there is at least some hope for sanity;
"...But within Sweden’s scientific and medical community, a debate about the strategy has simmered and frequently boiled over—in the opinion pages of newspapers, within university departments, and among hospital staff. A group of scientists known as “the 22” has called for tougher measures since April, when it published a blistering critique of the country’s public health authority, the Folkhälsomyndigheten (FoHM).
It says the price for Sweden’s laissez-faire approach has been too high. The country’s cumulative death rate since the beginning of the pandemic rivals that of the United States, with its shambolic response. And the virus took a shocking toll on the most vulnerable. It had free rein in nursing homes, where nearly 1000 people died in a matter of weeks. Stockholm’s nursing homes ended up losing 7% of their 14,000 residents to the virus.
..."

So at least SOME people there that actually care about human life are trying to fight back against this idiocy.

From the link below:

"What is going on here? Obviously, Fauci, Redfield, and the presstitutes are playing the fear factor, but why? Why deceive people into believing that masks that do not protect do protect?

The only answer to this question that I can think of is that fear is needed for mass vaccination, and the fear has to be kept alive until Big Pharma has a vaccine approved."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-fauci-redfield-presstitutes-deceiving-about-masks/5726961

Since they are not able to produce a vaccine yet I think it is very unlikely that SARS2 was intentionally released. If it came from a lab it is likely an accidental escape. There is still no evidence SARS2 originated in China. The USA may be the origin.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Flu vaccines are not very effective either.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail

@metal-brain said
Flu vaccines are not very effective either.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

"...Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2018-2019, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 4.4 million influenza illnesses, 2.3 million influenza-associated medical visits, 58,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 3,500 influenza-associated deaths.

A 2014 studyexternal icon showed that flu vaccine reduced children’s risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.
In recent years, flu vaccines have reduced the risk of flu-associated hospitalizations among older adultsexternal icon on average by about 40%.

A 2018 study showed that from 2012 to 2015, flu vaccination among adults reduced the risk of being admitted to an intensive care unit (ICU) with flu by 82 percent.
...
A 2017 study was the first of its kind to show that flu vaccination can significantly reduce a child’s risk of dying from flu.
...
A 2018 studyexternal icon showed that among adults hospitalized with flu, vaccinated patients were 59 percent less likely to be admitted to the ICU than those who had not been vaccinated. Among adults in the ICU with flu, vaccinated patients on average spent 4 fewer days in the hospital than those who were not vaccinated.
...
*References for the studies listed above can be found at Publications on Influenza Vaccine Benefits. Also, see the A Strong Defense Against Flu: Get Vaccinatedpdf icon! fact sheet.
..."


https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/research/perspective-article/it-may-not-be-perfect-but-the-influenza-vaccine-has-saved-many-peoples-lives/11138389.article?firstPass=false
"...It may not be perfect, but the influenza vaccine has saved many people’s lives
...
Halting an influenza pandemic before the introduction of flu vaccine was an impossible task. Some 20–50 million people worldwide are thought to have died in the outbreak of Spanish flu in 1918–19, nearly 200,000 of them in England. Nearly a century later, the global death toll for the 2009–10 pandemic has been put at 150,000–575,000, with fewer than 500 deaths in the UK. Although better healthcare and antiviral medicines saved many lives in the recent pandemic, vaccination has helped reduce the spread of both seasonal and pandemic flu in the UK for over 50 years.
..."

It took me only about 2 minutes to find those two above links.
Obviously you cannot find any links that show evidence that contradicts the above two links.
There, sorted.

@humy said
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

"...Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2018-2019, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 4.4 million influenza illnesses, 2.3 million influenza-associated medical visits, 58,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 3,500 influenza-associated dea ...[text shortened]... y you cannot find any links that show evidence that contradicts the above two links.
There, sorted.

Try reading the link I posted.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail

@metal-brain said
Try reading the link I posted.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail

why should I when you often refuse to read mine?
You are just trolling.

@humy said
why should I when you often refuse to read mine?
You are just trolling.

The most commonly used flu shots protect no more than 60% of people who receive them; some years, effectiveness plunges to as low as 10%.

Neither of the links you provided contradicts mine.

@metal-brain said
The most commonly used flu shots protect no more than 60% of people who receive them; some years, effectiveness plunges to as low as 10%.

Assuming all that is accurate and true, none of that contradicts anything in my links I provided nor any of my assertions and none of that proves flue vaccines aren't effective; If they save many human lives, like they actually have, then that means, and contrary to your earlier claim, they are effective by any sane definition of 'effective'.
My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

@humy said
Assuming all that is accurate and true, none of that contradicts anything in my links I provided nor any of my assertions and none of that proves flue vaccines aren't effective; If they save many human lives, like they actually have, then that means, and contrary to your earlier claim, they are effective by any sane definition of 'effective'.
My links, that you apparently refu ...[text shortened]... l completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

10% is not effective. That is probably what it will be close to this year, maybe less. Then you have to get another one each year. SARS2 might turn out the same way, every year. Lots of profit for big pharma....but wait. Moderna is not even a pharmaceutical corporation. Drop the e in moderna and you have mod rna. Modified RNA. Mwwwhahahaha! LOL!

@metal-brain said
10% is not effective.

This statement changes nothing; Even according to you it starts much higher than 10%. A vaccine doesn't have to be effective forever to still save millions of lives; and, even then, after the effectiveness of a vaccine has finally worn off, if necessary, you could just simply take the same vaccine, or, and far more likely in practice, at least a modified version of it specifically for a booster dose, again. Why not? Are you so ignorant you have never heard of a 'booster dose'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booster_dose
"a booster dose is an extra administration of a vaccine after an earlier (prime) dose. After initial immunization, a booster injection or booster dose is a re-exposure to the immunizing antigen. It is intended to increase immunity against that antigen back to protective levels, after memory against that antigen has declined through time.
..."
Well? Why not?

But, regardless, the evidence proves flu vaccines save millions of lives and thus, by any sane definition of 'effective', its effective.
My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

@humy said
This statement changes nothing; Even according to you it starts much higher than 10%. A vaccine doesn't have to be effective forever to still save millions of lives; and, even then, after the effectiveness of a vaccine has finally worn off, if necessary, you could just simply take the same vaccine, or, and far more likely in practice, at least a modified version of it specifical ...[text shortened]... al completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

60% is not much better than the flip of a coin and that is about the best you can hope for. 10% is not worth taking it, especially now. With this SARS2 scare the flu wasn't doing much in the southern hemisphere over the summer. They hardly have anything to predict this winter.

The flu vaccine should not be recommended with such poor odds. Gambling makes more sense.

@metal-brain said
60% is not much better than the flip of a coin

what is required for a flu vaccine to be effective at saving millions of lives has nothing to do with the odds from flipping a coin. Even reducing the flu-related deaths by just 10% can easily result in millions of lives saved so even just a 10% effectiveness can mean its worth taking the flu vaccine and yet the evidence shows flu vaccines generally reduces the number of flu-related deaths from the strain of flu it is for by more than 10% and have world wide already saved MILLIONS of lives; See the evidence in my previous links I provided that you apparently moronically refuse to read.

Nothing you have said here has contradicted the evidence that proves flu vaccines save millions of lives and thus, by any sane definition of 'effective', flu vaccines have been generally effective.
My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

@humy said
what is required for a flu vaccine to be effective at saving millions of lives has nothing to do with the odds from flipping a coin. Even reducing the flu-related deaths by just 10% can easily result in millions of lives saved so even just a 10% effectiveness can mean its worth taking the flu vaccine and yet the evidence shows flu vaccines generally reduces the number of flu-rel ...[text shortened]... al completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
You are just trolling.

You are using the term straw man incorrectly. Look it up.