1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    13 Oct '13 16:013 edits
    Individual Discouragement and Personal Growth

    "… when Moses was grown … he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens" (Exodus 2:11).

    "Moses saw the oppression of his people and felt certain that he was the one to deliver them, and in the righteous indignation of his own spirit he started to right their wrongs. After he launched his first strike for God and for what was right, God allowed Moses to be driven into empty discouragement, sending him into the desert to feed sheep for forty years. At the end of that time, God appeared to Moses and said to him, " ‘… bring My people … out of Egypt.’ But Moses said to God, ‘Who am I that I should go …?’ " (Exodus 3:10–11). In the beginning Moses had realized that he was the one to deliver the people, but he had to be trained and disciplined by God first. He was right in his individual perspective, but he was not the person for the work until he had learned true fellowship and oneness with God.

    We may have the vision of God and a very clear understanding of what God wants, and yet when we start to do it, there comes to us something equivalent to Moses’ forty years in the wilderness. It’s as if God had ignored the entire thing, and when we are thoroughly discouraged, God comes back and revives His call to us. And then we begin to tremble and say, "Who am I that I should go …?" * We must learn that God’s great stride is summed up in these words—"I AM WHO I AM … has sent me to you" (Exodus 3:14). We must also learn that our individual effort for God shows nothing but disrespect for Him—our individuality is to be rendered radiant through a personal relationship with God, so that He may be "well pleased" (Matthew 3:17). We are focused on the right individual perspective of things; we have the vision and can say, "I know this is what God wants me to do." But we have not yet learned to get into God’s stride. If you are going through a time of discouragement, there is a time of great personal growth ahead." (Oswald Chambers)

    * "We must also learn that our individual effort for God shows nothing but disrespect for Him—our individuality is to be rendered radiant through a personal relationship with God, so that He may be "well pleased" (Matthew 3:17)

    Talk about no-nonsense, tough love. If so with a Leader of the Stature of Moses, how much more so with the likes of us?
  2. Dublin Ireland
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    13 Oct '13 16:27
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Individual Discouragement and Personal Growth

    "… when Moses was grown … he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens" (Exodus 2:11).

    "Moses saw the oppression of his people and felt certain that he was the one to deliver them, and in the righteous indignation of his own spirit he started to right their wrongs. [i]After he launche ...[text shortened]... tough love. If so with a Leader of the Stature of Moses, how much more so with the likes of us?[/b]
    A few questions:

    1. How do you know for sure that Moses ever existed?
    2. If you were Moses, would you stay in the desert for 40 years?
    3. How do you look after and feed sheep in a desert?
    4. If he did exist, why did your GOD treat him so badly?
    5. Don't you realize it's all bull anyway?
    6. Who decided that God should stay silent for the last few thousand years?
    7. Wouldn't he be still talking today if he was still around?
    8. If he is so powerful, why he would need an intermediary?
    9. Where is your evidence for the existence of God?
    10. Why has God not moved for thousands of years?
    I don't see any vacation flag.
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    13 Oct '13 18:371 edit
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    A few questions:

    1. How do you know for sure that Moses ever existed?
    2. If you were Moses, would you stay in the desert for 40 years?
    3. How do you look after and feed sheep in a desert?
    4. If he did exist, why did your GOD treat him so badly?
    5. Don't you realize it's all bull anyway?
    6. Who decided that God should stay silent for the ...[text shortened]... tence of God?
    10. Why has God not moved for thousands of years?
    I don't see any vacation flag.
    First, Johnny, thank you for christening this thread; my anticipation was that few if any would touch it. In the interest of minimizing confusion and gaining understanding, let's examine the biblical context and your questions individually. Here are three analytical comments on the passage which prompted your them: Exodus 2:11 Translations King James Version (KJV) "And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren."

    Clarke's Commentary on Exodus 2:11

    "When Moses was grown - Being full forty years of age, as St. Stephen says, Acts 7:23, it came into his heart to visit his brethren, i.e., he was excited to it by a Divine inspiration; and seeing one of them suffer wrong, by an Egyptian smiting him, probably one of the task-masters, he avenged him and smote - slew, the Egyptian, supposing that God who had given him commission, had given also his brethren to understand that they were to be delivered by his hand; see Acts 7:23-25. Probably the Egyptian killed the Hebrew, and therefore on the Noahic precept Moses was justified in killing him; and he was authorized so to do by the commission which he had received from God, as all succeeding events amply prove. Previously to the mission of Moses to deliver the Israelites, Josephus says, "The Ethiopians having made an irruption into Egypt, and subdued a great part of it, a Divine oracle advised them to employ Moses the Hebrew. On this the king of Egypt made him general of the Egyptian forces; with these he attacked the Ethiopians, defeated and drove them back into their own land, and forced them to take refuge in the city of Saba, where he besieged them. Tharbis, daughter of the Ethiopian king, seeing him, fell desperately in love with him, and promised to give up the city to him on condition that he would take her to wife, to which Moses agreed, and the city was put into the hands of the Egyptians." - Jos. Ant. lib. ii., chap. 9. St. Stephen probably alluded to something of this kind when he said Moses was mighty in deeds as well as words."

    Barnes' Notes on Exodus 2:11 "Went out unto his brethren - At the end of 40 years. The Egyptian princess had not concealed from him the fact of his belonging to the oppressed race, nor is it likely that she had debarred him from contact with his foster-mother and her family, whether or not she became aware of the true relationship. An Egyptian - This man was probably one of the overseers of the workmen, natives under the chief superintendent Exodus 1:11. They were armed with long heavy scourges, made of a tough pliant wood imported from Syria."

    Wesley's Notes on Exodus 2:11 "2:11 When Moses was grown he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens - He looked on their burdens as one that not only pitied them, but was resolved to venture with them, and for them." (exodous 2:11/godvine)

    Note: I'm still hopeful that others will join this substantive conversation. -Bob
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    13 Oct '13 18:54
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    A few questions:

    1. How do you know for sure that Moses ever existed?
    2. If you were Moses, would you stay in the desert for 40 years?
    3. How do you look after and feed sheep in a desert?
    4. If he did exist, why did your GOD treat him so badly?
    5. Don't you realize it's all bull anyway?
    6. Who decided that God should stay silent for the ...[text shortened]... tence of God?
    10. Why has God not moved for thousands of years?
    I don't see any vacation flag.
    A few answers:

    1. It's in the Book.
    2. Not on purpose.
    3. I've never raised sheep.
    4. God knows.
    5. No.
    6. God.
    7. Maybe.
    8. Because God is so powerful.
    9. Everywhere.
    10. God moves every day.

    I am not on vacation.

    The Instructor 😏
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    13 Oct '13 21:49
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Individual Discouragement and Personal Growth

    "… when Moses was grown … he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens" (Exodus 2:11).

    "Moses saw the oppression of his people and felt certain that he was the one to deliver them, and in the righteous indignation of his own spirit he started to right their wrongs. [i]After he launche ...[text shortened]... tough love. If so with a Leader of the Stature of Moses, how much more so with the likes of us?[/b]
    Good post GB...interestingly Jesus calls John the Baptist greater...
  6. Dublin Ireland
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    13 Oct '13 22:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    A few answers:

    1. It's in the Book.
    2. Not on purpose.
    3. I've never raised sheep.
    4. God knows.
    5. No.
    6. God.
    7. Maybe.
    8. Because God is so powerful.
    9. Everywhere.
    10. God moves every day.

    I am not on vacation.

    The Instructor 😏
    If I wrote a book like that would you believe all that was in it?
    Monsters and miracles and spirit creatures?

    Where is he today then? Why doesn't he speak to us humans
    like he allegedly did thousands of years ago?

    Is it because he was never there in the first place?


    Time and time again I have asked you and others like you
    and time and time again you have failed to produce hard
    evidence that would stand up in a court of law that your
    God exists.


    No one can prove his existence.
  7. Standard memberRemoved
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    13 Oct '13 23:13
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    If I wrote a book like that would you believe all that was in it?
    Monsters and miracles and spirit creatures?

    Where is he today then? Why doesn't he speak to us humans
    like he allegedly did thousands of years ago?

    Is it because he was never there in the first place?


    Time and time again I have asked you and others like you
    and time and ...[text shortened]... hat would stand up in a court of law that your
    God exists.


    No one can prove his existence.
    God would reveal himself to you if you humble yourself and come to him with an honest heart.
    He has to millions of others throughout history. He tends to hide himself from the haughty and arrogant.
    Who are we to make demands on the Creator?
    But know this, if he does reveal himself to you, you might not like the answer like Naaman the leper.
  8. Dublin Ireland
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    14 Oct '13 10:08
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    God would reveal himself to you if you humble yourself and come to him with an honest heart.
    He has to millions of others throughout history. He tends to hide himself from the haughty and arrogant.
    Who are we to make demands on the Creator?
    But know this, if he does reveal himself to you, you might not like the answer like Naaman the leper.
    So I'm haughty and arrogant because I question you?
    You who believe in fairy tales just like r j hinds?

    Fantasy merchants both of you.

    They should have given you both a part in that Movie

    "Lord of the Rings"


    Tolkien would be proud of you both.


    Back to your soft room and medication when the movie is over.
  9. Standard memberRemoved
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    14 Oct '13 10:481 edit
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    So I'm haughty and arrogant because I question you?
    You who believe in fairy tales just like r j hinds?

    Fantasy merchants both of you.

    They should have given you both a part in that Movie

    "Lord of the Rings"


    Tolkien would be proud of you both.


    Back to your soft room and medication when the movie is over.
    No my friend, not with me. With God. And not because you question either.
  10. Joined
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    14 Oct '13 12:52
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    God would reveal himself to you if you humble yourself and come to him with an honest heart.
    He has to millions of others throughout history. He tends to hide himself from the haughty and arrogant.
    Who are we to make demands on the Creator?
    But know this, if he does reveal himself to you, you might not like the answer like Naaman the leper.
    He has allegedly 'revealed himself' to people who did not 'humble themselves' in the past:

    - A global flood (of which no evidence survives today)
    - The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (of which no evidence survives today)
    - Several plagues in Egypt

    If he was willing to reveal himself in these way back then, why not now?

    --- Penguin.
  11. Standard memberRemoved
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    14 Oct '13 13:29
    Originally posted by Penguin
    He has allegedly 'revealed himself' to people who did not 'humble themselves' in the past:

    - A global flood (of which no evidence survives today)
    - The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (of which no evidence survives today)
    - Several plagues in Egypt

    If he was willing to reveal himself in these way back then, why not now?

    --- Penguin.
    That was the result of rebellion or sin, but I was speaking on a personal level.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Oct '13 14:111 edit
    Originally posted by Penguin
    He has allegedly 'revealed himself' to people who did not 'humble themselves' in the past:

    - A global flood (of which no evidence survives today)
    - The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (of which no evidence survives today)
    - Several plagues in Egypt

    If he was willing to reveal himself in these way back then, why not now?

    --- Penguin.
    Why do you make this all-encompassing statement at the top and then fail to deliver?
    He has allegedly 'revealed himself' to people who did not 'humble themselves' in the past:

    "- A global flood (of which no evidence survives today)"

    In this instance, He revealed Himself to Noah. How did Noah not "humble himself"? If you mean the entire world, well, the flood just happened, it wasn't a "revelation". No reason was given to the masses.

    "- The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (of which no evidence survives today)"

    In this instance, He revealed Himself to Lot. How did Lot not "humble himself"? If you mean the residents of these two towns, no, again it wasn't a "revelation". As far as they knew, it just "happened".

    "- Several plagues in Egypt"

    In this instance, He revealed Himself to Moses. How did Moses not "humble himself"? If you mean the residents of Egypt, again, there was no "revelation". The plagues came, and killed many Egyptians, and went. Pharoah only knew from whence they came because Moses told him.

    God is not in the habit of revealing Himself to those who do not deserve it. To do so would be to eliminate their free will, at least if they're not an idiot. And that is precisely the reason He hasn't made Himself known lo these past many centuries.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Oct '13 14:14
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    So I'm haughty and arrogant because I question you?
    You who believe in fairy tales just like r j hinds?

    Fantasy merchants both of you.

    They should have given you both a part in that Movie

    "Lord of the Rings"


    Tolkien would be proud of you both.


    Back to your soft room and medication when the movie is over.
    johnny, there's no use in "talking" and "acting" like an atheist unless you actually are one.
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    14 Oct '13 14:15
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    That was the result of rebellion or sin, but I was speaking on a personal level.
    So that implies that there is less rebellion and sin now then there was then. Probably far less, given that he has not made a single public appearance in the last 2000 years.

    Do you agree with that, given that far less than 1/3 of the human population profess to believe in your god at all? Most people either believe in and follow the teachings of some other deity or deities, or don't believe in any deity at all.

    --- Alistair.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    14 Oct '13 14:28
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    If I wrote a book like that would you believe all that was in it?
    Monsters and miracles and spirit creatures?

    Where is he today then? Why doesn't he speak to us humans
    like he allegedly did thousands of years ago?

    Is it because he was never there in the first place?


    Time and time again I have asked you and others like you
    and time and ...[text shortened]... hat would stand up in a court of law that your
    God exists.


    No one can prove his existence.
    There is much evidence that the Holy Bible presents facts. It is up to you to seek out this evidence like I did. You don't want to see the evidence anyway. I am not going to spend any more time answering questions for your lazy ass.

    The Instructor
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