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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 10:46
    I don’t believe in the “prosperity gospel.”

    Not saying God does not provide for His children - He does and His faithful love and mercy endure forever.

    But Jesus Christ said on more than one occasion that Christians should not expect an easy life (the servant is not greater than his Lord) and there are quite a few verses in the New Testament that speak on this theme.

    Regardless, many televangelists and pastors of mega-churches in America preach a prosperity gospel. I think they’re doing a disservice to Christians by doing so.

    Thoughts?
  2. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    10 Feb '18 11:18
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    I don’t believe in the “prosperity gospel.”

    Not saying God does not provide for His children - He does and His faithful love and mercy endure forever.

    But Jesus Christ said on more than one occasion that Christians should not expect an easy life (the servant is not greater than his Lord) and there are quite a few verses in the New Testament that sp ...[text shortened]... a prosperity gospel. I think they’re doing a disservice to Christians by doing so.

    Thoughts?
    "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    "But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses." -- 1 Timothy 6:9-12, KJV

    "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." -- Matthew 6:24, KJV
  3. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 11:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    "But thou, O man of God, flee these things; an ...[text shortened]... ll hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." -- Matthew 6:24, KJV
    Great verses; thanks suzianne. I’m going to post some tomorrow along the lines of Christians shouldn’t expect an easy life.

    The reason I think the prosperity gospel is bad is when Christians go through inevitable trials, the trials will either confuse the heck out of them or cause them to think God is angry at them or cause them to doubt the nature or even existence of God.

    God does bless us, but not always in ways we expect.
  4. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 11:31
    Think I’ll post a couple tonight.

    Here’s one:

    “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

    But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.“

    (1 Peter 4:12-13)
  5. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 11:36
    Here’s another:

    “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

    If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.“

    (John 15:18-20)
  6. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 11:41
    “And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

    For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

    If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

    Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.”

    (Hebrews 12:5-11)
  7. 10 Feb '18 13:37
    I think that it attracts the wrong peopel to say that you will be blessed and have earthly gains from the faith.

    I would prefer a Church that is about picking up your cross and following me.
  8. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    10 Feb '18 13:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    I don’t believe in the “prosperity gospel.”

    Not saying God does not provide for His children - He does and His faithful love and mercy endure forever.

    But Jesus Christ said on more than one occasion that Christians should not expect an easy life (the servant is not greater than his Lord) and there are quite a few verses in the New Testament that sp ...[text shortened]... a prosperity gospel. I think they’re doing a disservice to Christians by doing so.

    Thoughts?
    Yes, the Prosperity Gospel is one of the more corrupt teachings coming out of Christianity

    But, Once Saved Always Saved, a doctrine you preach is not far behind.

    You are also doing Christ a disservice by preaching that good works and righteousness is not required, and that a Christian can continue with sin and still enter the Kingdom of God.

    Unfortunately the PG can be supported by cherry picking a few verses, the same way you support your doctrine by cherry picking a few verses.
  9. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 13:45
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Yes, the Prosperity Gospel is one of the more corrupt teachings coming out of Christianity

    But, Once Saved Always Saved, a doctrine you preach is not far behind.

    You are also doing Christ a disservice by preaching that good works and righteousness is not required, and that a Christian can continue with sin and still enter the Kingdom of God.
    Once saved, always saved - otherwise known as unconditional salvation - has numerous verses and prominent Christians supporting it.

    I never said righteousness (right standing with God) was not required to enter the Kingdom of God. One obtains a right standing with God and inherits eternal life by believing in Jesus Christ in one’s heart. That is all that is needed for salvation - see a John 3:16 and Romans 10:9. Good works are simply evidence that someone is already saved and are not a requirement for salvation.

    Are you now saying a Christian who sins cannot enter the Kingdom of God? I thought you changed your position on that.
  10. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 13:58
    <Unfortunately the PG can be supported by cherry picking a few verses, the same way you support your doctrine by cherry picking a few verses.>

    You can insult me all you want. It just shows how weak your case is.

    You have falsely said good works are required for salvation.

    You have falsely said a Christian cannot sin (though it appears you may have backed off this absurd statement.)

    You have falsely claimed Jesus Christ never said believing in him was all that was needed for eternal life.

    You have failed to explain how a just God could require good works for salvation and never tell His followers how many good works they must do.

    You have failed to explain how Jesus Christ granted eternal life to the thief on the cross after the thief expressed faith in Him as the Son of God and before the thief did any good works.

    You have failed to explain why Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was necessary if a Christian who sins cannot enter heaven.

    You have failed to explain how a Christian who is still living in the flesh and in a sinful world can avoid for any long period of time the sins of anger, coveting, lying and looking on a woman with lust in his heart.

    You neglect that becoming more Christ like is exhibiting “the fruits of the Spirit” and you instead emphasize doing an unspecified number and type of good works.

    You judgmentally and arrogantly claim Christians who do not subscribe to your false doctrine of salvation by good works are going to hell.

    You can’t even avoid sinning in the forum of a chess website and yet you condemn other Christians for sinning when you know nothing about them.
  11. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    10 Feb '18 14:06
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    <Unfortunately the PG can be supported by cherry picking a few verses, the same way you support your doctrine by cherry picking a few verses.>

    You can insult me all you want. It just shows how weak your case is.

    You have falsely said good works are required for salvation.

    You have falsely said a Christian cannot sin (though it appears you may ha ...[text shortened]... chess website and yet you condemn other Christians for sinning when you know nothing about them.
    I discussed these things at length with you already. In fact I discussed these things at length with all your imaginary buddies FMJ, djbecker, and several others.

    If you want me to discuss this again I suggest you get another name.
    Im tired of saying the same things to this one.
  12. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 14:10
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    I discussed these things at length with you already. In fact I discussed these things at length with all your imaginary buddies FMJ, djbecker, and several others.

    If you want me to discuss this again I suggest you get another name.
    Im tired of saying the same things to this one.
    You didn’t discuss any of them at length - or at all - because you can’t. Your false doctrines can’t stand the scrutiny and your foolish pride won’t allow you to reconsider your positions.
  13. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    10 Feb '18 14:32
    Originally posted by @romans1009 to Rajk999
    You didn’t discuss any of them at length - or at all - because you can’t. Your false doctrines can’t stand the scrutiny and your foolish pride won’t allow you to reconsider your positions.
    The accusation that Rajk999 has not discussed his beliefs AT LENGTH is outrageous! Outrageous I say!
  14. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 14:35
    Is Simon Peter, one of the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ, in heaven?

    In John chapter 6, he expresses belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God:

    “Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

    Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

    And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.“

    (John 6:67-69)

    But Peter later sinned in publicly denying three times that he even knew Jesus Christ.

    If a Christian cannot sin and enter heaven, as you have falsely claimed, I guess that means Peter, one of Jesus Christ’s original disciples, is not there.
  15. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    10 Feb '18 14:36
    Originally posted by @fmf
    The accusation that Rajk999 has not discussed his beliefs AT LENGTH is outrageous! Outrageous I say!
    He hasn’t answered or explained any of the points I raised.