Bible: Wives, be subject to your own husbands...in everything

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
lol - umm...no? We're not talking about careers here. I admit I laughed when I read your reply. Thanks for that.

So women can have any career they want? Like a priest career? Cardinal career?? a Pope career???

We are born on this planet, as two sexes, to help eachother to survive the conditions. Help eachother is the key word. Not one of us be superiour of the other and the other be inferiour to men. If we accept the superiour/inferiour religious crap, then we are still at the dark ages.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
I'm married and my wife understands she is not valued any less. We actually have the same beliefs and work together to create a happy marriage and family.

But you're in charge? Where do you live, the nineteen fifties?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
But you're in charge? Where do you live, the nineteen fifties?

We work together, which I believe I mentioned.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So women can have any career they want? Like a priest career? Cardinal career?? a Pope career???

We are born on this planet, as two sexes, to help eachother to survive the conditions. Help eachother is the key word. Not one of us be superiour of the other and the other be inferiour to men. If we accept the superiour/inferiour religious crap, then we are still at the dark ages.

Having different roles does not mean being superior or inferior.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
Having different roles does not mean being superior or inferior.

Who defines their respective roles? Themselves, or others? What gives some the right to define roles for other people?

Whoever sayng "You are a woman, so your salary is less than a man's salary of the only reason that you are a woman." is dead wrong.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Who defines their respective roles? Themselves, or others? What gives some the right to define roles for other people?

Whoever sayng "You are a woman, so your salary is less than a man's salary of the only reason that you are a woman." is dead wrong.

Well – for starters – Women have the blessed role of giving birth. This is something a man can’t do. That isn’t a man’s role. In marriage, my wife’s role is to stay home and take care of the children. This was not decided by me, but is how my wife wants it. She loves it. My wife only works part time at the moment because we need more money to pay bills but will be cutting her hours down more eventually as time and money permit.

We both sat down before we were married and decided what is going to best for our family – what our roles will be. My wife is just better at certain things. I am better at doing other things. This does not mean my wife is valued any less – we both take an active role in our marriage and our family. We work together to achieve a common goal. My wife is an extremely important part of my life and an important part of our family – I wouldn’t have it any other way. A husband and wife should love each other.

I don’t agree with that saying either by the way.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
Well – for starters – Women have the blessed role of giving birth. This is something a man can’t do. That isn’t a man’s role. In marriage, my wife’s role is to stay home and take care of the children. This was not decided by me, but is how my wife wants it. She loves it. My wife only works part time at the moment because we need more money to pay bill ...[text shortened]... A husband and wife should love each other.

I don’t agree with that saying either by the way.

what you are saying isn't what we are against. you seem to be speaking about a very nice family. each has a certain role to perform, no different than what an atheist family is dealing with.

what i want to know is : should your wife desire to have a career, would you stay home and take care of the children? supposing money wouldn't be a problem (let's say your wife would make more than you do at your current job) would you take your wife's responsibilities so she could be happy?
another question would be who makes the decisions around your house? does your wife participate? does her opinion counts? and ultimately who has the last word?
for example, a deeply fundamentalist woman posted here once that should her husband decide to put all their life savings under a rock in the woods, she would obey her husband wishes. is it the same in your household?


there is nothing wrong with a housewife. as long as it is her decision. as long as she is happy.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
In marriage, my wife’s role is to stay home and take care of the children. This was not decided by me, but is how my wife wants it.

So if she wanted a career, you would let her do it, and you would stay at home taking care of your children?
You and your wife decide what role is best for her and what's best for you?
Did I understand you correctly?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So if she wanted a career, you would let her do it, and you would stay at home taking care of your children?
You and your wife decide what role is best for her and what's best for you?
Did I understand you correctly?

My role is to make sure my wife was happy. If she wanted a career, she should do it. Whether I would stay home would depend on certain factors. I can also work as well at the same time. There would be no harm in that. The fact is we make decisions together. If I would not let my wife make decisions - that would not be love in my opinion.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
what you are saying isn't what we are against. you seem to be speaking about a very nice family. each has a certain role to perform, no different than what an atheist family is dealing with.

what i want to know is : should your wife desire to have a career, would you stay home and take care of the children? supposing money wouldn't be a problem (let's ...[text shortened]... e is nothing wrong with a housewife. as long as it is her decision. as long as she is happy.

We both have an opinion and talk about it before making a decision. If my wife wanted a career - of course I would let her. I don't think I would be loving her much if I told her she can't do what she wants.

In our family if I make a decision that is detrimental to our family, my wife is under no obligation to follow suit. How would placing all of our life savings under a rock in the woods help our family? I can't see that and would not make that decision.

Maybe I have a different perspective on a husband and wife should love one another and become one flesh than other people.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
We both have an opinion and talk about it before making a decision. If my wife wanted a career - of course I would let her. I don't think I would be loving her much if I told her she can't do what she wants.

In our family if I make a decision that is detrimental to our family, my wife is under no obligation to follow suit. How would placing all of o ...[text shortened]... pective on a husband and wife should love one another and become one flesh than other people.

actually, you got all the best from the bible and i admire your convictions. good for you.

Originally posted by gtbiking4life
My role is to make sure my wife was happy. If she wanted a career, she should do it. Whether I would stay home would depend on certain factors. I can also work as well at the same time. There would be no harm in that. The fact is we make decisions together. If I would not let my wife make decisions - that would not be love in my opinion.

What you and your wife agrees upon is a matter of you two.

If you say that becase women are women they should stay at home with the children, amd because men are men they should get a good career to provide for them, then I disagree.

I've seen enough women that cannot handle children and enough men who certainly can, to know that handling children has nothing to do with gender, but individual qualities.
If my girlfriend can handle a hammer and nails better than I do, then she should do that. If I can handle food preparation better than my girlfriend, then i should of course do that.
If my girlfriend is stronger than me, and she has a higher salary than me, then i shouldn't be ashamed of that, rather proud of her. She shouldn't feel less of a woman either.

My point is: Every person is primarily an individual, with individual qualities, regardless of sex, ethnicity, religion, or anything else. Every person is an individual, and shouldn't be regarded with prejudices according to his/her belonging in a group.

Do you agree in this?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So you dont like to be associated with followers of the church, right?
How do you see womens roles in religous/spiritual affairs? Judging by the title of your OP, it would seem you do not agree with the oppression of women by the church.
I think womens views were oppressed by the men to keep the control,(to keep women doing housework,etc.). Would you ...[text shortened]... in the home. For example did the women have some sort of power that the men wanted to oppress? )

So you dont like to be associated with followers of the church, right?

I wouldn't have put it like that.

How do you see womens roles in religous/spiritual affairs? Judging by the title of your OP, it would seem you do not agree with the oppression of women by the church.

Women should have the same opportunities as men.

I think womens views were oppressed by the men to keep the control,(to keep women doing housework,etc.). Would you agree with that in general? Also, do you think there is more to it? (than just keeping them in the home. For example did the women have some sort of power that the men wanted to oppress? )

Seems more like because such men view women as inferior to themselves.

Originally posted by rwingett
Of the thirteen Pauline epistles, only seven are generally agreed to have actually been written by Paul (Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon), while the remaining six are of disputed authorship (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, and Titus).

John Dominic Crossan and Marcus Borg have writte ith is the radical Paul being transformed into a very conservative Paul by the early church.

This seems only remotely tangentially related. How long have you been sitting on this? Evidently long enough that you just had to get it out regardless of the circumstances.

Sounds like a good topic for another thread though.

Originally posted by josephw
There's nothing to reconcile ToO.

It's all part of God's perfect plan, and is in no way contradictory to the rest of scripture.

The woman was made for the man as a help meet.

The passage from which you quote begins by saying that the husband should love his wife. This places a greater accountability on the man.

There is order in God's universe. ...[text shortened]... e of the woman.

Man and woman are equal in soul, but our roles are laid out differently.

But just because God set in order that the man is the head of his wife does not in any way diminish the value of the woman.

Value as what? As servant to her master?