Originally posted by sonshipAll this man made bullshyte, like a supposedly loving god would condemn people it created. What a laugh. All this BS is meant to scare the unsophisticated mind to fear the consequences of non-belief. ALL from men and no god needed.
[b]Second Timothy 2:11-13 shows that REIGNING with Christ [in the millennial kingdom] is conditional upon enduring and being faithful. Christ will confess (at the commencement of the millennium) the names of the overcomers who endure in faithfulness during the church age.
Though Christ may discipline the defeated Christian for his unfaitfhfulness ...[text shortened]... e earth. But "He remains faithful" in His eternal redemption. For He cannot deny Himself.[/b]
An omniscient god would have known beforehand who would go to hell and who wouldn't so it wouldn't be necessary for said god to have created those it knew in advance would go to hell so it just wouldn't create them.
Of course you religious set will have a ready answer for that, since you know the mind of god SO well, that answer, So now you think you know the mind of God? Like you would be some kind of expert on a being so far above us as to make us like like ants.
But you know it all, you KNOW there is some kind of hell, which you don't at all, just believe in bullshyte men have written down and it HAD to be a god who wrote those words since humans are WAY too stupid to have EVER written something SO profound.
Gag me with a spoon. Pardon me while I throw up, Humans trying to tell me about a god. What a laugh.
Originally posted by Rajk999Where is this list of saints?
Apparently Sonship thinks so. He believes that anyone whose names are not written in the Book of Life is cast into the Lake of Fire, and they are tormented for all eternity.
Jesus says in Rev 3, that Christian saints who do not defile themselves and who overcome, those names will not be blotted out of the book of life.
So Christian saints who defile t ...[text shortened]... nd do not overcome, their names will be blotted out and they are going to face eternal torment.
Lutherans believe that they go through three stages in life...
Sinner.... Those just born and haven't recieved the sacrament of baptism.
Saved... Baptism
Saint... All Lutherans after being baptised.
Originally posted by sonshipChaff fit to be burned, destroyed, cast into the lake of fire,
The Lord Jesus will come to the earth and the sphere of His reigning will be glorious and full of light.
To be OUT of that situation and AWAY from that realm is to be in the [b]outer darkness.
More specifics on this we are not told.
The outer darkness is a realm of discipline for the unprofitable and unmerciful servants of the Lord - outside of t ...[text shortened]... s in general it also applies.
The merciful in the name of the Lord Jesus, will obtain mercy.[/b]
These are good things apparently in your doctrine.
You spend a lot of time twisting the Bible.
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Originally posted by KellyJayThis makes me smile. You said something similar about me only a few days before I stood up to you on your extremist anti-government political views regarding protecting children from their parents in certain situations - which ought to have made you spend
JS357 Is a good guy, who I have disagreements with on most things. He is also one of
those for me at like Ghost if they disagree with something I am saying I have to spend
time thinking about my stance because I find them stand up people. If I ever insult either of
them I'd feel bad about it.
time thinking about your stance - and you've been lying in public about what it was exactly that you were being criticized for ever since in order to justify your massive self-pitying huff. 😉
Originally posted by sonshipHere are two passages which demonstrate how far off you are from the truth.Jesus says the unprofitable servant is cast into the eternal fire.
Where does it say that? It does not say that.
It says that an unprofitable servant was cast into the [b]"outer darkness" where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Now, concerning the furnace of fire the same phrase is used "weeping and gnashing of teeth ...[text shortened]... ains to [b]"the outer darkness". The other passage pertains to "the furnace of fire."[/b]
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God,
and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it,
and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected,
and is nigh unto cursing;
whose end is to be burned.(Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV)
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it,
to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.(2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
Christian saints who fall away are good for nothing but to be burned
Christian saints who know the way of Christ and are after overcome by the world are
IN A WORSE POSITION THAN IF THEY DID NOT KNOW CHRIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WORSE OFF... NOT BETTER.. God will not discipline them. God will destroy them.
Stop twisting the Bible.
Originally posted by EladarHe does not read what he copies and pastes either:
No surprise. Your understanding of Christianity is limited.
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it,
to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
If they are overcome the later end will be worse then the beginning, if they recover and
are not over come Jesus can save them still.
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Originally posted by KellyJayTwo things about you:
He does not read what he copies and pastes either:
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, ...[text shortened]... l be worse then the beginning, if they recover and
are not over come Jesus can save them still.
- your English Comprehension is poor
- your pride is your downfall and it is eating you, because clearly you want to address the content of my post and discuss these matters with me but over and over you will do it indirectly via someone elses post.
Both are your problem to handle. However I will address your reply as if it was directed to me. I dont intend to be like you. From the reference in II Peter 2, one can identify 3 kinds of people:
1. Christian saints who overcome the world through Christ.. their destiny is secure, these have eternal security
2. Christians saints who do not overcome the world in spite of a Knowledge of the truth, they fell back into sin - their fate is WORSE THAN if they did not know of Christ in the first place.
3. Others who did not know of Christ at all - their fate is BETTER THAN those who know Christ and ended up falling away.
Peter is saying that an atheist will be in a BETTER POSITION than a Christian who fell back into his sinful ways
Peter is saying the complete opposite of what those like you sonship and josephw believe. YOU ARE WRONG.
If want want to talk then talk, stop being a pussy and hiding behind others... you little twit.
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Let's be fair and let's be thorough. I do not think I am twisting anything by quoting this passage:
"if anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward. (v.14)
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so with fire." (v.15)
What could it mean to "suffer loss" ? We could not presume to pin point for EACH examined backslider what "suffer loss" specifically might entail. And we do not need to know. We need to heed the warning.
"Suffer loss" is to suffer it AFTER the judgment seat of Christ here.
Suffer loss" is instead of receiving the reward of co-reigning as a victorious overcomer with Christ.
Rajk999 may accuse me of twisting. But I would teach that the scope and breadth of "suffer loss" includes a range within which can fall ANY and ALL warned against disciplines TO those saved forever in the New Testament.
Why this does not appear quite logical to some Bible students in peculiar to me.
If you have a better way to interpret no "reward" + "suffer loss" + "saved yet so as through fire" then you, reader, go ahead and follow it.
Cont. below.
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Let's be fair and careful.
SAVED ... YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE means something like - SAVED yet not without some adverse, rather negative passage way on the WAY to being SAVED.
The scope of such an expression, I would teach, is wide enough to include any and all warnings to saved Christians in the New Testament.
This could not be Catholic Purgatory because it is something arranged for the Christians AFTER the judgment seat of Christ, which has to mean AFTER the second coming.
Let's be fair. The immediately following passage strongly implies that Paul's cautionary note about being destruction for defiling the holy temple of God is connected to what he has JUST written about loss suffered but saved yet as through fire.
Connect the passages and you see this is a most reliable interpretation.
"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (v.15)
Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (v.16)
If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you." (v.17)
The seamless flow of logic calls for us understanding that the ones destroyed in verse 17 are the ones "saved, yet so as through fire" in verse 15.
Rajk999 may retort some grumpy response or jump to another complaint. But he appears not to be able to refute this interpretation.
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Originally posted by sonship
Let's be fair and let's be thorough. I do not think I am twisting anything by quoting this passage:[b] "if anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward. (v.14)
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so with fire." (v.15)
What could ...[text shortened]... b]"saved yet so as through fire"[/b] then you, reader, go ahead and follow it.
Cont. below.[/b]You are being neither fair nor thorough. I dont think its your fault. I think you lack the ability to be either and you do not know what to do now that you are confronted with the truth about what Bible is saying.
Jesus identified 3 types of Christians:
1. Those who did good work - eternal life
2. Those who did :acceptable work - eternal life
3. Those who did nothing.- cast out
Paul in 1 Cor 3, did the very same thing, 3 types
1. Those who did good work - eternal life
2. Those who did some work, some bad works and will suffer loss and still be saved - eternal life
3. These who did evil, defiled themselves and God - these will be destroyed.
Peter said in II Peter 2, that type 3 is in a worse position that someone who does not know of Christ at all. That is what a serious position these type 3s are in.
Im not interested in your interpretation or fancy analysis. What Jesus and the Apostles are saying in clear and need no interpretation. But you proceed. You continue your preaching of doctrines contrary to Christ and the Apostles .. your turn to answer to Christ will come.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
1. Christian saints who overcome the world through Christ.. their destiny is secure, these have eternal security
The eternal security of the one who suffers loss yet is saved as through fire is evident.
Though he is defeated and suffers loss, he is still eternally saved.
"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)
The very reason he is saved though he losses out on the reward is because his eternal redemption is secure.
Of course this is no encouragement to seek to lose the reward.
Good enough.