Can objective moral values exist without God?

Discuss

Originally posted by Darfius
Discuss

Yes.

Refute.

Originally posted by Darfius
Discuss

yes. see the thread A basis for spirituality.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Yes.

Refute.

Where do they come from? Explain what they are.

Originally posted by Darfius
Where do they come from? Explain what they are.

Man-made.

Refute.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Man-made.

Refute.

So an alien race would be subject to our moral laws?

Originally posted by Darfius
So an alien race would be subject to our moral laws?

Each individual has sovereignty to define his own objective moral laws.

Refute.

Originally posted by Darfius
So an alien race would be subject to our moral laws?

He said man-made. an alien race would then have their own set.

Nyxie

Originally posted by Nyxie
He said man-made. an alien race would then have their own set.

Nyxie

Then it's not objective. It's subjective.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Each individual has sovereignty to define his own objective moral laws.

Refute.

Each individual? Come on, you know that's the definition of subjective. Don't play word games with a Literary Studies major. 😉

Originally posted by Darfius
Then it's not objective. It's subjective.

It is objective to the individual, and as he said : refute.

Originally posted by Nyxie
It is objective to the individual, and as he said : refute.

I'm not talking about illusions. I'm asking if objective moral laws can exist without God being the foundation for them. So far, you two haven't proven they can.

Originally posted by Darfius
Each individual? Come on, you know that's the definition of subjective. Don't play words games with a Literary Studies major. 😉

Your notion of objective is mistaken, as is your understanding of how it contrasts with subjective.

If I claim "2 + 2 = 5", I have made an objective claim.
If I claim "2 + 2 is equal to a big number", I have made a subjective claim.

Similarly, each man can assert an objective moral law. The inconsistency between men's laws does not make them subjective, for all can evaluate the actions of any one man with respect to any one law and come to the same conclusion about whether he has violated that law.

Consult a dictionary.

Dr. S

Originally posted by Darfius
I'm not talking about illusions. I'm asking if objective moral laws can exist without God being the foundation for them. So far, you two haven't proven they can.

And you have'nt proven they can't. Your point?

There are many here who do not believe in God, yet they have objective moral standards. I think the very presence of these individuals proves this point.

Originally posted by Nyxie
And you have'nt proven they can't. Your point?

There are many here who do not believe in God, yet they have objective moral standards. I think the very presence of these individuals proves this point.

So the product proves the process? Uhh...

Christians claim God has set objective right and wrong in our hearts. That's my claim and it makes a lot more sense than individuals coincidentally coming upon the same 'objective' moral laws.