Carl Sagan on WatchTower 1914 Prediction

Originally posted by galveston75
Yes he did and on a level you don't understand. So there ya go.

You are amazing.


You're saying "The world ended in 1914, but on a level that we [the unwashed non JW sceptics] don't understand"...?*



*goes to look out of window and checks BBC news.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
It was worthwhile to have logged into RHP today. Thanks!

Youre welcome.

Originally posted by divegeester
Brilliant.

Yep .. Carl Sagan wrote quite a lot about people who make extraordinary claims. Its worth a read 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yep .. Carl Sagan wrote quite a lot about people who make extraordinary claims. Its worth a read 🙂

I'm currently reading it. It's been hit or miss. I liked the chapter on scams and not so much the one about naming every crack and crevice on every moon and planet.

Originally posted by divegeester
You are amazing.


You're saying [b]"The world ended in 1914, but on a level that we [the unwashed non JW sceptics] don't understand"...?*



*goes to look out of window and checks BBC news.[/b]

I don't believe I ever said the world ended in 1914. Could you show me that statement?

Originally posted by galveston75
I don't believe I ever said the world ended in 1914. Could you show me that statement?

LemonJello:

"he [Rutherford] did state on some level that the world had ended"

You:

"Yes he did and on a level you don't understand"


It's on the previous page 😕

Originally posted by divegeester
LemonJello:

"he [Rutherford] did state on some level that the world had ended"

You:

"Yes he did and on a level you don't understand"


It's on the previous page 😕

You really don't get that answer do you?

Originally posted by galveston75
" the social order of things had "legally" ended in 1914 "

No clue of what he meant by that do you? Of course you don't and I doubt you even care. So I'll not waist my time trying.

But he did not say on any level the world had ended as we are still here aren't we as well as he was alive when he stated that, right? So that's bull no matter what Mr. Sagan says.

G-Man in all fairness it begs the question

What social order of things ended? The religious ? The Political ? What ?

Good or Bad however you choose to see it the world did NOT end in 1914 and this invisible crap does not fly it was a cop out for the JW's of that era but mostly for Rutherford so that he would not lose followers. Sad thing is modern JW's always have to answer for the Organizations past blunders. This is what is so fascinating is that there is a written record of these blunders. I notice at times you seemed caught off guard like when did we say that? Research you Organizations history is very interesting no doubt.


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
G-Man in all fairness it begs the question

What social order of things ended? The religious ? The Political ? What ?

Good or Bad however you choose to see it the world did NOT end in 1914 and this invisible crap does not fly it was a cop out for the JW's of that era but mostly for Rutherford so that he would not lose followers. Sad thing is modern did we say that? Research you Organizations history is very interesting no doubt.


Manny

(((( No one is saying the world ended.))))) Is that not as clear as it can be? If someone post that question to me again I'll not respond.
Once Br. Rutherford realized their thought and understanding was wrong and the physical world did not end in 1914, they knew it had to mean something else. Make sense?
But things did change as I have posted to you and others here that many, many historians noticed and quoted about the world after 1914.
One of the things that changed and thus "ended" was a very big social issue and was the relative peace that the world knew before WW1.
This is simular to many statements that have been said about the USA's relative peace we had here in the coutry before 9/11.
Are you able to see the point that Br. Rutherford and myself now are trying to make? This county for us here in the USA has changed since 9/11, has it not? In turn the whole world changed in that same manor in 1914 and thus it ended a conception of the world like never before...........

Originally posted by galveston75
You really don't get that answer do you?

5 posts up you said you didn't say it, and asked me to show you where you did.

So I have.

The onus is on you to be honest in your posting, and on you to explain your strange beliefs.

Originally posted by galveston75
(((( No one is saying the world ended.))))) Is that not as clear as it can be? If someone post that question to me again I'll not respond.
Once Br. Rutherford realized their thought and understanding was wrong and the physical world did not end in 1914, they knew it had to mean something else. Make sense?
But things did change as I have posted to you ...[text shortened]... same manor in 1914 and thus it ended a conception of the world like never before...........

Fair enough but you can't take away the fact that Br. Rutherford and his predecessor Russell started predicting the end of the world before 1914 and it just seems very convenient to suddenly say after 1914 that well something else is going on. Then it became 1925 that the world was going to end and well it did not 1975 was also supposed to be the end of the world. (BTW this not to say the day will not come be we know not when) My frustration with this is that at it should call into question the honesty and integrity of the leaders of the watchtower. It's akin to what that Harold Camping guy did. He wrote a book in 1994 saying that would be the end then his recent debacle last year. Also the fact that you can't call into question your leadership that sounds like a problem. You should be allowed to have totally free thought even in regard to your bible reading and understanding. Also we can safely say that the 1914 calculations that were made were totally off and that the prophecy in the Book of Daniel was misunderstood by the Watchtower. Is free thought wrong? I can understand if you were in an organization for years it would not be an easy task to dismiss it and do something new. Even if I became a Jehovah I would have problems immediately because I question everything. I'd get kicked out LOL and be labeled an apostate. I at least want to you to see that there are millionth of people who read the bible and have a different understanding but they still love God. There are Jehovah's that I believe love God also. I get in trouble for this but I believe there will be people from many different sects of Christendom that will make it to be with God. (Not an orthodox view)

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Fair enough but you can't take away the fact that Br. Rutherford and his predecessor Russell started predicting the end of the world before 1914 and it just seems very convenient to suddenly say after 1914 that well something else is going on. Then it became 1925 that the world was going to end and well it did not 1975 was also supposed to be the end of the ent sects of Christendom that will make it to be with God. (Not an orthodox view)

Manny

So you are using the word "dishonest" here. Could you explain that as that is a very strong word and it could be used in a defaming way to discredit the reason behind their statements. Are you sure that was their motive to be dishonest and for what reason would they do that?

Also I was very alive and aware of what some thought would happen in 1975 and that was never spoken, written down, expressed from any elder from the stage, written in any piece of liturature I had ever seen up to that date. Some individuals on their own came up with that idea. Never did the WTS say that.
The only mention I ever saw from the WTS was that 1975 was the 6K point of mans existance.
If you can produce anything from the WTS that said the world was going to end with armegeddon in 1975 I would like to see that.













talked about

Originally posted by menace71
Fair enough but you can't take away the fact that Br. Rutherford and his predecessor Russell started predicting the end of the world before 1914 and it just seems very convenient to suddenly say after 1914 that well something else is going on. Then it became 1925 that the world was going to end and well it did not 1975 was also supposed to be the end of the ...[text shortened]... ent sects of Christendom that will make it to be with God. (Not an orthodox view)

Manny

Why do you insist that I don't question what we believe? Please tell me.............

Originally posted by galveston75
So you are using the word "dishonest" here. Could you explain that as that is a very strong word and it could be used in a defaming way to discredit the reason behind their statements. Are you sure that was their motive to be dishonest and for what reason would they do that?

Also I was very alive and aware of what some thought would happen in 1975 an ...[text shortened]... end with armegeddon in 1975 I would like to see that.













talked about

I will find it for you. I know literature from I believe 1968 awake or Watchtower indeed pointed to 1975 so I shall find it for you.

As far as dishonest it's the opposite of honest right? Honest would mean truthful.
When the end of the world is predicted multiple times but does not happen well that is the opposite of honest. This is not to say that every single JW is dishonest in all that they do at all. I bet your a very honest person who could be trusted with my wallet 😉
The leadership however is dishonest for doing that. If lets just say the Catholics did this very same thing would you think they were being honest? (I know the Catholics another subject) I am discrediting Rutherford on this account as his claims were false on the predictions.

Manny

PS: let me find the pre-1975 predictions for you.

Originally posted by galveston75
Why do you insist that I don't question what we believe? Please tell me.............

Ok my fault I will recant that you don't question what you believe. In another words as Robbie says"I demand a public apology!!!" So I'm offering you a public apology for that. 🙂



Manny