Christians and the military.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well it's not what you think either. No one is taking anything out of context here but as usual your'e not open to learning anything.
You obviously don't get the point of this scripture either as Jesus clearly said "his Kingdom is no part of this world". If you decide to fight for worldly governments then you are a part of this world and not a part of the Kingdom Jesus is speaking of. You are either a part of his Kingdom or your not.......

Yes, I am a part of this world. I've been a part of this world ever since I
was born into it. You are a part of this world, too. You are not a part
of the Kingdom Jesus is speaking of and you may never be. So get off
your high horse and come down to earth with the rest of us. You need
to get your head out of the clouds and think like normal citizens that must
live in this world. God is not going to do everything for you. Wake up!

Originally posted by RJHinds
He also expects us to take up the sword when necessary. Jesus said to
his disciples, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise
also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."

1. Christ was speaking figuratively, about arming oneself for spiritual warfare.

2. When Peter uses a sword in the garden Jesus rebukes him saying: “Put your sword back in its place
for all those who take up the sword shall perish by
the sword,” (Mat. 26:52).

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, I am a part of this world. I've been a part of this world ever since I
was born into it. You are a part of this world, too. You are not a part
of the Kingdom Jesus is speaking of and you may never be. So get off
your high horse and come down to earth with the rest of us. You need
to get your head out of the clouds and think like normal citizens that must
live in this world. God is not going to do everything for you. Wake up!

Lol... Jesus said to be "no part of the world" as far as where your loyalty to God and his commands and spirituality are concerned. It's clear where your loyalty goes. The good ole USA.

Instead of participating in the politics of his day, Jesus focused on preaching about God’s Kingdom, the future heavenly government of which he was the prospective King. (Daniel 7:13, 14; Luke 4:43; 17:20, 21) Thus, when before Roman Governor Pontius Pilate, Jesus could say: “My kingdom is no part of this world.” (John 18:36)
His faithful followers imitate his example by giving their loyalty to Christ and his Kingdom and by announcing that Kingdom to the world. (Matthew 24:14) “We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ,” wrote the apostle Paul. “As substitutes for Christ we beg: ‘Become reconciled to God.’”—2 Corinthians 5:20.
Because ambassadors represent a foreign sovereign or state, they do not interfere in the internal affairs of the countries where they serve; they remain neutral. Ambassadors do, however, advocate the government of the country they represent. The same is true of Christ’s anointed followers, whose “citizenship exists in the heavens.” (Philippians 3:20) In fact, thanks to their zealous Kingdom preaching, they have helped millions of Christ’s “other sheep” to “become reconciled to God.” (John 10:16; Matthew 25:31-40) These latter ones serve as Christ’s envoys, as it were, in support of Jesus’ anointed brothers. As one united flock advocating the Messianic Kingdom, both groups maintain strict neutrality toward the world’s political affairs.—Isaiah 2:2-4.


Ok do we possibly get the point here of being an "ambassador" of Jesus and his Kingdom?
As this clearly explains if you are a Christian and in your daily life represent Jesus as a Christian then you are a representative and subject of his Kingdom and not a subject of the worldly goverments who Satan offered to Jesus while being tempted and the same governments that have only greed and selfish reasons behind the things they do. They have no interest in the Kingdom that Jesus is the ruler of.
Either you are a subject of the Kingdom Jesus rules or a subject of a worldly government. You cannot be both...........

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It has been asserted, that,

I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses are more of a coward than I am.
[b]They refuse to serve in the military like regular Christians.
Maybe, that is why you are a member of the JW's, coward.

this of course appears to me to transgress the most sacred of principles, that life is
sacrosanct to God, for he was the ...[text shortened]... nciples will
you learn warfare?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjQD-aZOL10&feature=fvst[/b]

Hey, Robbie! I have not read through this whole thread, and really have no arguments to offer. I am not personally an adherent of non-violent resistance, for example. I only want to say that, when certain Christians attack adherents of other religions for historically violent actions, I have naively assumed that those Christians were themselves adherents of nonviolence—and I have been wrong. So I respect your arguments, even though I disagree with them (from outside the Christian fold, as we both know), as being both consistent and courageous.

In another context, I was just recently reading about the treatment of JWs by the Nazi regime in Germany. Though (as I say) I am not a non-violent myself, I cannot help but be moved by the courage of those who have taken such a stand.

[After all, my Taoist Tai Chi is also a martial art. 🙂 ]

Originally posted by Doward
1. Christ was speaking figuratively, about arming oneself for spiritual warfare.

2. When Peter uses a sword in the garden Jesus rebukes him saying: “Put your sword back in its place
for all those who take up the sword shall perish by
the sword,” (Mat. 26:52).

Nothing figurative about it. If they were to all fight the Roman soldiers
with there swords they would surely die.

Originally posted by galveston75
Lol... Jesus said to be "no part of the world" as far as where your loyalty to God and his commands and spirituality are concerned. It's clear where your loyalty goes. The good ole USA.

You don't know what Jesus said. You only know what the JWs say He said.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
on what Christian principles will you learn warfare? First you shall answer the question then you may make an attempt to morally justify your assertions. Please note also the term Christian, which some of you are having trouble with. The old covenant and what transpired in the Hebrew scriptures was specific to the ancient Hebrews and the nation of Israel, it was and is not binding on Christians.

To defend those who can't defend themselves !! There is your answer !!



Manny

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why is this point so hard for you to understand, the Jews, that is, non Christians waged war at Gods command, the question was, what Christian (that is non Jewish, non Muslim, non, Hindu, non anything other than Christian) principles will you cite to learn war. Notice you have not produced any Christian principles. Is this a failure to understand t ...[text shortened]... of jargon and in-house terms? what is it about, what CHRISTIAN principles that yet evades you.

Same God!!!




Manny

Originally posted by RJHinds
Nothing figurative about it. If they were to all fight the Roman soldiers
with there swords they would surely die.

they weren't supposed to fight the Romans, Christ gave no such command. In fact when Peter drew his sword and cut the ear off a servant Christ tells him to put it away and then heals the servant's ear. He then tells them that those who live by the sword shall die by the sword....not a ringing endorsement for violence.

About 40 years after the resurection the Jews rebeled against the romans and Rome completely destroyed Jerusalem. The power in Christs movemment was not in force of arms. It was an ideological war that said: my God is YHWH not Ceasar, my nieghbors matter, not because I can crush them, but becasue my God says they do. Peace is a gift from God not from Pax Romani.

For someone who thinks they know it all, you really have a lot to learn about history and theology.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You don't know what Jesus said. You only know what the JWs say He said.

John 18:36
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 Jesus answered,

(((((((((((((((((( “My kingdom is not of this world )))))))))))))))))))))

If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

Funny how you always attack when you don't understand a scripture in your own bible that's in black and white.
So yes I do know what Jesus said as it's right in front of your face.

Originally posted by galveston75
John 18:36
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 Jesus answered,

(((((((((((((((((( “My kingdom is not of this world )))))))))))))))))))))

If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

Funny how you always attack when yo ...[text shortened]... s in black and white.
So yes I do know what Jesus said as it's right in front of your face.

His kingdom is not of this world, but it is certainly in and on this world.

Mark 1: 15 “The time promised by God has come at last!” he announced. “The Kingdom of God is near! Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!”

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Originally posted by Doward
they weren't supposed to fight the Romans, Christ gave no such command. In fact when Peter drew his sword and cut the ear off a servant Christ tells him to put it away and then heals the servant's ear. He then tells them that those who live by the sword shall die by the sword....not a ringing endorsement for violence.

About 40 years after the resurection t ...[text shortened]... omeone who thinks they know it all, you really have a lot to learn about history and theology.

That is what I said. It was common sense, man. They would have died
if they had fought the Romans. You have a lot to learn about history.
You can just start with World War I and World War II and see the opinions
of historians as to what would have happened if we had remained
isolationists. You don't have a clue as to why we must fight wars. You
still live in a fantasy land.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is what I said. It was common sense, man. They would have died
if they had fought the Romans. You have a lot to learn about history.
You can just start with World War I and World War II and see the opinions
of historians as to what would have happened if we had remained
isolationists. You don't have a clue as to why we must fight wars. You
still live in a fantasy land.

Are you on meds or something? I don't mean that as an insult, its just that you are quite irrational. First you're talking about needing swords to fight the Romans then you're saying they would have been slaughtered (my contention). You don't seem to have a frim grasp on reality.

Exactly when and where did Christ comment on WW1 or WW2? When and where did Christ endorse the use of physical violence aganist another human being? He never did. Yet he often offers words of restraint and peace. The evidence in the New Testament is overwhelmingly against you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Nothing figurative about it. If they were to all fight the Roman soldiers
with there swords they would surely die.

That's why they used guns!

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