Dear, Suzy; Help!; Confused Evolutionist

Darfius

Spirituality

31 Mar '05 06:54

Darfius
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31 Mar '05 06:54
Scientists have found a dinosaur species, Allosaurus fragilis, dated to have lived in Colorado some 150 million years ago, also lived on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, in Portugal, at about the same time. The new fossil was discovered by paleontologist Bernardino Perez-Moreno of the Universidad Autónoma de Madrid and colleagues in 150-million-year-old rock formations in Leira, 155 kilometers north of Lisbon. The skeleton, of a juvenile dino, is incomplete, but has telltale bones such as the pelvis, vertebrae, and fragments of leg bones, including 'unmistakable pelvic features unique to A. fragilis.' One puzzle is how the Allosaurus wound up on two continents: The supercontinent of Pangea had broken up tens of millions of years earlier, and by 170 million years ago Portugal was separated from North America by a sea hundreds of miles wide. Geologist Alan Smith of Cambridge University, who specializes in reconstructing ancient geography said, 'you cannot get rid of the central Atlantic between Africa and America at this time--the evidence is incontrovertible.' No reasonable explanations are available from our evolutionist friends.

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/originnews.html
xxxenophobe
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31 Mar '05 07:02
migrated... or got reeely lost..lol....
Redmike
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31 Mar '05 07:25
Originally posted by Darfius
Scientists have found a dinosaur species, Allosaurus fragilis, dated to have lived in Colorado some 150 million years ago, also lived on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, in Portugal, at about the same time. The new fossil was discovered by paleontologist Bernardino Perez-Moreno of the Universidad Autónoma de Madrid and colleagues in 150-million-year-old ...[text shortened]... ailable from our evolutionist friends.

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/originnews.html
Oh no!
A question for which theTheory of Evolution apparentley has no answer!
Repent Now!

But that's the difference, Darfius. In the word of science, sometimes things are difficult and obscure. Sometimes things aren't what they seem. Sometimes we have to admit the theory isn't quite right and change it, or even get new theory all together! And that's ok. Science is an ongoing process. Its not your enemy.

I don't know anything about this dinosaur, and last studied paleontology more than 20 years ago, and I really can't be bothered to look it up. The point is that one case like this doesn't prove anything. There are lots of things science can't currently explain.

And anyway, what is your general view of dinosaur fossils? How does this fit with your view of the timetablefor the creation of the world? Apologiies if this has already been discovered.
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 07:37
Oh no!
A question for which theTheory of Evolution apparentley has no answer!
Repent Now!

There are many, many questions the theory of evolution has no answers for. Many scientists Christian and non-Christian alike, have major problems with evolution.

But that's the difference, Darfius. In the word of science, sometimes things are difficult and obscure. Sometimes things aren't what they seem. Sometimes we have to admit the theory isn't quite right and change it, or even get new theory all together! And that's ok. Science is an ongoing process. Its not your enemy.

Funny, scientists haven't been willing to get a new theory to replace evolution ever since Darwin popped up with it. And strangely, it isn't falsifiable, all problems can be answered with "the fossil record isn't complete yet." Nothing is ever difficult or obscure when you turn to God. Try it out.

I don't know anything about this dinosaur, and last studied paleontology more than 20 years ago, and I really can't be bothered to look it up. The point is that one case like this doesn't prove anything. There are lots of things science can't currently explain.

There isn't anything the Word of God can't explain. Which makes sense, since it's from God. And the one case proves a lot, if no answer can be given for it. Just like the question of bird and human origins.

And anyway, what is your general view of dinosaur fossils? How does this fit with your view of the timetablefor the creation of the world? Apologiies if this has already been discovered.

I believe in evolution in as much as it was a tool God used to diversify the world. But He created the first birds, rodents, mammals and fish. Evolution took over from there. And roughly 50,000-100,000 years ago, He made us.

Dinosaurs were animals on the earth at some period in time. They kept the earth systems taken care of while it was really hot.
AThousandYoung
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31 Mar '05 08:331 edit
Originally posted by Darfius
Scientists have found a dinosaur species, Allosaurus fragilis, dated to have lived in Colorado some 150 million years ago, also lived on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, in Portugal, at about the same time. The new fossil was discovere ...[text shortened]... friends.

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/originnews.html
If you read the source paper, it claims that this find supports an already existing hypothesis of a land bridge between the Americas and the Old World at that time. Did you read the source paper? Godandscience.org seem to prefer to ignore this possibility based on one geologist's opinion which they take as fact, totally ignoring that other scientists have differing opinions.

...a direct North America-Africa connection has been already proposed through Central and South America (e.g. Cox 1980; Galton 1980a, b; Galton & Powell 1980) in order to explain the faunal similarities between the Morrison and Tendaguru Formations. Nevertheless, the intercontinental distribution of the nonavian theropod A. fragilis is a stronger evidence for a land route between North America and Eurasia, and probably also with Africa (although not necessarily at the same time), during the Upper Jurassic.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3721/is_199905/ai_n8842314/pg_2
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 08:52
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
If you read the source paper, it claims that this find supports an already existing hypothesis of a land bridge between the Americas and the Old World at that time. Did you read the source paper? Godandscience.org seem to prefer to ignore this possibility based on one geologist's opinion which they take as fact, totally ignoring that other scientist ...[text shortened]... per Jurassic.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3721/is_199905/ai_n8842314/pg_2[/i]
Why would that be the only species to cross the hypothesized (I'd hypothesize it too if I didn't want God to exist) land bridge?
xxxenophobe
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31 Mar '05 08:56
ok they evolved wings reel quick and then there kids didnt likem' any more so they deevolvdm'.. blargh!!!! how bout god pickedm up n putm there does that work?
Redmike
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31 Mar '05 09:021 edit
Originally posted by Darfius
[b]Oh no!
A question for which theTheory of Evolution apparentley has no answer!
Repent Now!

There are many, many questions the theory of evolution has no answers for. Many scientists Christian and non-Christian alike, hav ...[text shortened]... ey kept the earth systems taken care of while it was really hot. [/b]
Originally posted by Darfius

There are many, many questions the theory of evolution has no answers for. Many scientists Christian and non-Christian alike, have major problems with evolution. [/b]

And? Its a theory. That's the point. Nobody is claiming its the absolute truth. Its the best mechanism for explaining a set of observed phenomena we've come up with.

Funny, scientists haven't been willing to get a new theory to replace evolution ever since Darwin popped up with it. And strangely, it isn't falsifiable, all problems can be answered with "the fossil record isn't complete yet." Nothing is ever difficult or obscure when you turn to God. Try it out.

Actually, the original theory has been modified over the years, particularly as fields like genetics have advanced or new observations are made. That's the way it works.

There isn't anything the Word of God can't explain. Which makes sense, since it's from God. And the one case proves a lot, if no answer can be given for it. Just like the question of bird and human origins.

That just displays a lack of understanding of how science works. There have always been things that can't be explained. When these things finally get explained, new problems are found and we seek explanations for them. There will probably always be unexplained things, but the point is that we understand more and more about the universe and how it works.

For example, when Newton came up with his theories about Gravity, this was a great step forward. As observational methods improved over the centuries, discrepancies were found and new theories established. No doubt these theories may well be discarded and replaced.

One case proves nothing.

I believe in evolution in as much as it was a tool God used to diversify the world. But He created the first birds, rodents, mammals and fish. Evolution took over from there. And roughly 50,000-100,000 years ago, He made us.

Dinosaurs were animals on the earth at some period in time. They kept the earth systems taken care of while it was really hot.

Now this is interesting.
So, you're happy that dinosaurs existed, and that they existed before humanity? How long did they exist for?
Can you expand on 'kept the earth systems taken care of while it was really hot' - exactly when was it really hot? What did dinosaurs do to take care of the earth's systems? (Sorry, but I have a vision of dinosaurs sitting at PCs answering help-desk calls).
I've never heard this sort of explanation for dinosaurs before, so I'm just curious.
AThousandYoung
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31 Mar '05 09:05
Originally posted by Darfius
Why would that be the only species to cross the [b]hypothesized (I'd hypothesize it too if I didn't want God to exist) land bridge?[/b]
Did you read the source paper, Darfius?
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 09:06
Originally posted by Redmike
Originally posted by Darfius

[b]There are many, many questions the theory of evolution has no answers for. Many scientists Christian and non-Christian alike, have major problems with evolution.

And? Its a theory. That's the point. Nobody is claiming its the absolute truth. Its the best mechanism for explaining a set of observed phenomena ...[text shortened]... alls).
I've never heard this sort of explanation for dinosaurs before, so I'm just curious.
[/b]
Please fix the text, so I can understand your post.
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 09:07
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Did you read the source paper, Darfius?
I won't unless I need to. I'm reading a lot of stuff. If you feel I should, I will, but I thought the point was that they postulated a land bridge. Isn't my question valid?
Redmike
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31 Mar '05 09:151 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Did you read the source paper, Darfius?
Redmike
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31 Mar '05 09:16
Originally posted by Darfius
Please fix the text, so I can understand your post.
Hmm. Not sure how that happened, but its fixed now.
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 09:23
Originally posted by Redmike
Hmm. Not sure how that happened, but its fixed now.
Thanks
Darfius
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31 Mar '05 09:322 edits
And? Its a theory. That's the point. Nobody is claiming its the absolute truth. Its the best mechanism for explaining a set of observed phenomena we've come up with.

I would argue God explains data better and is a simpler answer. Why is God not a hypothesis? Intelligent Design is clear in cosmology, biology and morality, so the argument "Getting God out of nowhere" is false.

Actually, the original theory has been modified over the years, particularly as fields like genetics have advanced or new observations are made. That's the way it works.

Yes, but no other theory has ever been postulated, evolution has always been vehemently defended, including many instances of "Later findings will re-validate it." It's almost like evolutionists have a stake in it being the absolute truth...

That just displays a lack of understanding of how science works. There have always been things that can't be explained. When these things finally get explained, new problems are found and we seek explanations for them. There will probably always be unexplained things, but the point is that we understand more and more about the universe and how it works.

Yes, we do understand it more and more. And the more we understand, the more it points toward Intelligent Design. Why hasn't God been postulated in a respected, peer-reviewed science paper yet? Surely no scientist could be shot down for such a theory.

For example, when Newton came up with his theories about Gravity, this was a great step forward. As observational methods improved over the centuries, discrepancies were found and new theories established. No doubt these theories may well be discarded and replaced.

Have to agree here.

One case proves nothing.

If a human being suddenly lifted up into the air and flew, would that "prove nothing" about current laws of physics? Could we dismiss it out of hand and say "Let's explain it later?" Why make such allowances for evolution? Smells like an agenda.

Now this is interesting.
So, you're happy that dinosaurs existed, and that they existed before humanity? How long did they exist for?
Can you expand on 'kept the earth systems taken care of while it was really hot' - exactly when was it really hot? What did dinosaurs do to take care of the earth's systems? (Sorry, but I have a vision of dinosaurs sitting at PCs answering help-desk calls).
I've never heard this sort of explanation for dinosaurs before, so I'm just curious.

The Hebrew word translated as a literal day in the King James version is 'yom'. It can also mean an 'age' (i.e. The Middle Ages). As such, I believe dinosaurs were created in one of the "ages" and allowed to perform jobs many present day animals perform, for instance the brachiosaurases ate from the tops of trees, and now giraffes do (albeit from smaller trees), etc.

I sounded rather elementary when I said "when it was really hot". What I meant is that the temperature of the earth while dinosaurs existed was quite hot and humid, a wonderful climate for cold-blooded reptiles.