1. Joined
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    02 Sep '10 01:26
    Just wondering what everyone thinks
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    02 Sep '10 01:52
    Originally posted by realeyez
    Just wondering what everyone thinks
    yes
  3. Maryland
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    02 Sep '10 05:58
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    yes
    No. God gave us nothing, because there is no god.
  4. Joined
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    02 Sep '10 08:191 edit
    What is “free will”?

    Is it just the capacity to determine your own actions? If so, then, presumably, if you had unlimited intelligence, you could predict with certainty of what a person is going to choose to do or think next just by knowing every aspect of is current brain/mind state despite the fact he has “free will”; just like you can predict what a dumb robot will do next whether it has consciousness or not. Somehow I don’t think this is what is normally meant by “FREE will”!
    The only way for it to be impossible to predict what a person will choose to do next even if you had unlimited knowledge of his current brain/mind state is if there is an element of true randomness in what a person will do next.
    But if part/one aspect of his thought process is truly “random” then that implies he would have NO control over that part/one aspect of his thought process and “NO control” means “NO choice”. Somehow I don’t think this is what is normally meant by “FREE will” either! –surely you would not call it “FREE will” if you have NO control over that part that causes your choices.
    Of course, there could well be a mixture of random and deterministic elements to what makes you choose one thing rather than another; but that would only mean that you have NO control over the random elements of what makes you choose (because if they are “random” then you are not choosing the outcomes) and you have NO control over the deterministic elements of what makes you choose (because, being predetermined, you will inevitably have those elements and they will inevitably have whatever influence they do on your choices).

    So, this brings us back to the same question, what is “free will”?
    Maybe “free will” is literally a meaningless term?
  5. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 17:15
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    What is “free will”?

    Is it just the capacity to determine your own actions? If so, then, presumably, if you had unlimited intelligence, you could predict with certainty of what a person is going to choose to do or think next just by knowing every aspect of is current brain/mind state despite the fact he has “free will”; just like you can predict w ...[text shortened]... k to the same question, what is “free will”?
    Maybe “free will” is literally a meaningless term?
    I have just worked out how to say all that in just one sentence:

    We can choose but we cannot choose what causes our choices therefore there is no free will.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to say in one sentence what others take a whole book to say?

    So, back to the question: did God give us free will?
    Answer: no; because there is no free will (there is also no God but that is not part of my argument here).
  6. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 18:35
    According to Genesis, god did not give us the free will. When eating the forbidden fruit, they excercized their free will and got punished. God didn't like them for excercizing their free will. They got punished.
  7. Maryland
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    03 Sep '10 18:47
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to Genesis, god did not give us the free will. When eating the forbidden fruit, they excercized their free will and got punished. God didn't like them for excercizing their free will. They got punished.
    God cares more about his apples thasn his children!
  8. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 18:57
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to Genesis, god did not give us the free will. When eating the forbidden fruit, they excercized their free will and got punished. God didn't like them for excercizing their free will. They got punished.
    I didn’t know that! That surprises me.

    Anyone:

    Let me get this straight then; according to the BIBLE, God did NOT give us free will?
    If so, then according to the Bible, what is the origin of “free will”? or doesn’t it say anything about its origin?
  9. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 20:39
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    I didn’t know that! That surprises me.

    Anyone:

    Let me get this straight then; according to the BIBLE, God did NOT give us free will?
    If so, then according to the Bible, what is the origin of “free will”? or doesn’t it say anything about its origin?
    You're the one who insists the universe is governed by 'laws' - you figure it out.
  10. Donationbbarr
    Chief Justice
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    03 Sep '10 21:12
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    I have just worked out how to say all that in just one sentence:

    We can choose but we cannot choose what causes our choices therefore there is no free will.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to say in one sentence what others take a whole book to say?

    So, back to the question: did God give us free will?
    Answer: no; because there is no free will (there is also no God but that is not part of my argument here).
    Why do you think free will requires that choices have no causal antecedents? That, in a nutshell, is the libertarian position. But there are competing philosophical accounts of free will...

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/
  11. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 21:18
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    I didn’t know that! That surprises me.

    Anyone:

    Let me get this straight then; according to the BIBLE, God did NOT give us free will?
    If so, then according to the Bible, what is the origin of “free will”? or doesn’t it say anything about its origin?
    What is the value of free will when you get punished when using it?
  12. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 23:28
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to Genesis, god did not give us the free will. When eating the forbidden fruit, they excercized their free will and got punished. God didn't like them for excercizing their free will. They got punished.
    Lol...Your contradicting yourself.
  13. Joined
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    03 Sep '10 23:30
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    What is the value of free will when you get punished when using it?
    Do what is right and your fine...
  14. Joined
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    04 Sep '10 01:43
    Originally posted by realeyez
    Just wondering what everyone thinks
    You were born with everything God gave you.
  15. Joined
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    04 Sep '10 06:132 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to Genesis, god did not give us the free will. When eating the forbidden fruit, they excercized their free will and got punished. God didn't like them for excercizing their free will. They got punished.
    I don't believe in the Bible, and I'm not here to debate whether God exists or gives or takes, but I think you've misunderstood the concept of free will.

    Free will is the ability to choose between one or more actions. Each action will have a set of consequences. When you exercise your free will, your decision should be based on a rational assessment of the consequences.

    In the story of Genesis, God forbade eating the fruit of the tree. Adam exercised his right to go against God's wishes, and so had to accept the consequences.
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