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-Removed-Originally posted by divegeester
The topic of 'annihilation', [as opposed to eternal suffering] is completely relevant to this thread, why would you think it not. In fact the juxtaposing doctrines are well documented for centuries which is why I was asking you what sources you had read that disagreed with your viewpoint, but you seemed to be incapable for finding any during your 4 day research exploration.
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That's why I introduced it....
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 11)
divegeester, I did my best to find legitimate biblical points of difference. This academic source was the most comprehensive:
Annihilationism
"Annihilationism is the belief that the final fate of those who are not saved is literal and final death and destruction. It runs counter to the mainstream traditional Christian understanding of hell as eternal suffering and separation from God.
In contrast to the more traditional view, which holds that the wicked will remain conscious in hell forever, annhilationism teaches that, whether or not God may use hell to exact some conscious punishment for sins, he will eventually destroy or annihilate the wicked completely, leaving only the righteous to live on in immortality. This is essentially a moot point for Universalists since in their view all will be saved and hell will one day be empty.
Each of the three views, Annihilationism, Eternal Torment and Universalism, has at least one major feature in common with the alternatives. Universalism and Eternal Torment both affirm that everyone will have immortality. Universalism and Annihilationism affirm that evil will one day no longer exist, and Annihilationism and Eternal Torment both affirm that some will be punished eternally, without remedy. For the annihilationist, however, eternal punishment is seen as "permanent elimination."
Conditional immortality
The doctrine of Annihilationism is often, although not always, bound-up with the notion of Conditional Immortality, a belief that the soul is not innately immortal. At death, both the wicked and righteous..."
Annihilationism today
Today many traditionalists claim that the doctrine is most often associated with groups descended from William Miller and the Adventist movement of the mid-1800s, including Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other Adventist groups. However, a number of evangelical theologians, including Anglican John Stott, Church of Christ elder Edward Fudge, Open Theists Clark Pinnock and John Sanders, as well as Philip Edgecombe Hughes and others have offered support for the doctrine, touching off a heated debate within mainstream evangelical Christianity.
Since the 1960s, Annihilationism seems to be gaining as a legitimate minority opinion within modern, conservative Protestant theology. It has found support and acceptance among some British evangelicals, although viewed with greater suspicion by their American counterparts." (Part Two)
http://www.theopedia.com/Annihilationism
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Originally posted by divegeester
Thanks; reading that copy/paste dump completely clarified how "death" is the same thing as "living eternally in suffering". Not.
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... and then welcomed discussion of the topic with Suzianne:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Suzianne
Since I consider myself perhaps one of the more vocal proponents of Annihilationism, consider this post only my first salvo in what may become an interesting conversation, and hopefully not just a "my opinion is obviously correct, and be quiet and learn" moment for you.
Sure, Suzi. May I suggest that you consider opening the topic of "Annihilationism"
up to a wider audience by giving it thread status of its own. I'll contribute.
-Removed-Originally posted by divegeester
What has "justice" got to do with burning people in a fire for eternity?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
The Lake of Fire is part of God's Word. Absolute Justice and Perfect Righteousness [which equal Divine Integrity] are Immutable Attributes of God's Sovereign Character. God's Justice cannot deny itself... if it could He wouldn't be God.
"God is consistent and changes not." (Mal. 3:6); "... with Him there is no variableness or turning." (Jas. 1:17). His word does not equivocate, saying “yes” from one perspective but “no” from another (2 Cor. 1:18; cf. Matt. 5:37). Therefore His standards of conduct do not contradict each other, approving and disapproving of the same things depending upon which theme in New Testament ethics we are considering." "God’s Law In New Testament: Ethical Themes" (—Paf.t. 1) by Greg L. Bahnsen, Th.M., Ph.D. http://www.garynorth.com/freebooks/docs/a_pdfs/newslet/bahnsen/7907.pdf
"... God doesn't reject unbelievers; the unbeliever rejects the love of God that was demonstrated at Christ's crucifixion on Golgotha Hill as a substitute for all mankind." (Page 11)
Originally posted by divegeester
Can you define "prominent" in this context and its relevance to how "death" equates to "eternal suffering"
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 10)
Past few days I've searched for biblical leeway but have found only confirmation. Annihilation of unbelievers is not part of God's Plan. "The second death" and the "lake of fire" are identical terms." Rev 20:14 I'll continue searching. -Bob
The present focus on God's Absolute Justice and The Lake of Fire in this thread are also an example of "prominent".