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    I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
    Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
    much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
    example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that
    art can be a very jealous mistress leaving virtually little room for anything else,
    what think you, is it possible that spiritual fulfilment can be found in secular pursuits?
    I leave you with this quotation which I inadvertently stumbled upon with a link that
    was sent to me in error,

    Not having an orthodox belief system to support me, and refusing to succumb to-the-
    make-it-up-as-you-go-along spirituality of this our darkling and narcissistic age, I
    have ever sought solace in the secular salvation of textual criticism,

    remembering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
    purify ourselves."
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 11:06
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
    Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
    much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
    example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that ...[text shortened]... se,
    what think you, is it possible that spiritual fulfilment can be found in secular pursuits?
    You are "disturbed" by the concept of someone doing something that is not connected to religion or something that you personally consider not "spiritual"? Is that what you are saying?
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    11 Dec '12 11:322 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
    Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
    much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
    example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that
    a ...[text shortened]... embering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
    purify ourselves."[/b]
    We are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of God. If I believe in the Risen Christ and it's just an artful falsehood, there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
    -
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 11:391 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of God. If I believe in the Risen Christ and it's just an artful falsehood, there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
    Filling a void with an "artful falsehood", far from being a situation in which one has "nothing to lose", seems to me to have a high price in terms of intellectual and spiritual integrity.
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    11 Dec '12 11:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
    Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
    much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
    example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that ...[text shortened]... embering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
    purify ourselves."
    as an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
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    11 Dec '12 11:48
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    We are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of Go ...[text shortened]... , there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
    -
    i have no hole in my heart, or any spiritual needs, or an itch i cannot scratch (well maybe sometimes, but mrs spalfie takes care of that, not god).
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 11:541 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    as an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
    I think pursuits driven by the human spirit, even if they consume much of one's time and energy, can be entirely rewarding and moral, as long as one does no harm to others, deceives no one, and coerces no one, and especially if 'the artist' touches other people with the fruits of their pursuits in ways that help those others (and themselves) to understand or gain insights into the human condition and our inter-connectedness.
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    11 Dec '12 12:14
    Originally posted by FMF

    Filling a void with an "artful falsehood", far from being a situation in which one has "nothing to lose", seems to me to have a high price in terms of intellectual and spiritual integrity.
    "If Christ is not who and what He said he was (is)..." may provide a more nearly accurate paraphrase.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 12:24
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "If Christ is not who and what He said he was (is)..." may provide a more nearly accurate paraphrase.
    This is only of concern to you and other Christians. You have dodged the question of the profound dishonesty in claiming that filling one's life with an "artful falsehood" involves having "nothing to lose".
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    11 Dec '12 12:37
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    as an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
    I don't think so, in fact, it appears to me that such 'fulfillment', is nothing but a fleeting
    and transient glimpse, as GB stated, we have much deeper spiritual needs that art and
    music simply cannot fulfill.
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    11 Dec '12 12:391 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    We are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of Go , there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
    -
    If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed,

    indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not
    all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 12:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I don't think so, in fact, it appears to me that such 'fulfillment', is nothing but a fleeting
    and transient glimpse, as GB stated, we have much deeper spiritual needs that art and
    music simply cannot fulfill.
    If you don't get fulfillment from it robbie perhaps you should fill your personal void with some sort of off-the-shelf religionist dogma, as indeed you apparently already have.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 12:46
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed

    Will not "succeed" in what way?

    indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.

    Oh, so your OP was about "fame and fortune" and not ordinary people applying their human spirit to artistic pursuits? Your OP is about whether or not some, any or all celebrities are happy? Is that right?
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    11 Dec '12 13:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed,

    indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not
    all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.
    Vincent comes to mind.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '12 13:07
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Vincent comes to mind.
    robbies' OP said nothing at all about fulfillment [or whether or not one can seen to "succeed"] being measured in terms of "fame and fortune". Now in his latest post he is talking about "fame and fortune" as "compensation", something totally different from the spiritual/secular pursuits as framed in the OP. It would seem the Goalposts have been moved.
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