Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b] If not, then on what basis do you accept that Jesus is "our Lord and Savior" but is not "our God and Savior"
Because the bible tells me so. God raised Jesus from the dead, God commands me to receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior... That was the prize Jesus won, to be highly exalted like Joseph in the OT.
Joseph was like god to the people, but o ...[text shortened]... himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Because the bible tells me so. God raised Jesus from the dead,
Jesus also said that He had the authority to lay down His life and take it up again (John 10:17)
Jesus also said to destroy this temple of His body and in three days He [Jesus] would raise it up (John 2:19)
We should learn what the Scripture says. And we should learn what else
the Scripture says.
The Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1)
Through the centuries then many believers have understood that Christ is with God and Christ is God - period.
God commands me to receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior...
Amen. And He commands the same of me too. Why does that make it impossible for me to believe that the Word was with God and that the Word was God (John 1:1) ?
Believing in John 1:1 is not somehow against obeying the command for me to receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior.
That was the prize Jesus won,
For me to believe John 1:1,14
in no way makes Jesus as my Lord and Savior somehow not that prize that Jesus won.
to be highly exalted like Joseph in the OT.
Joseph was like god to the people, but on the throne Pharaoh was God or King.
I agree that one of many types of Christ in the OT is Joseph
Believing the Joseph was a type of Christ does not necessitate that I disbelieve that "the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1:1)
It is not that I believe something extra. It is that you do not believe enough.
...let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
Amen. Let us do so. But that has no requirement that for this reason I do not believe John 1:1,14
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
Amen! By all means. Yet this has nothing to do with me twisting John 1:1,14
. The Word with God was God and became flesh.
Wonderful verses you remind me of there. None of them mean John 1:1,14
is to not be believed too.
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Amen. So what ? How does that require of me that I do not believe John 1:1,14
This Jesus, the Author and Perfector of my faith was with God and was God. And He became flesh (John 1:1,14).
Who is teaching you that any of these verses mean you should not believe John 1:1
? Go tell them that you are not believing something "extra". You just want to believe all that is said in Scripture about the Person of Jesus Christ.
What was the joy set before Jesus?
You Trinitarians think I do not esteem the Lord Jesus. But Jesus is my hero and my friend and Savior.
Don't call me a Trinitarian. If you are a believer in Jesus simply call me a brother
And I never
said or implied that you do not love or esteem the Lord Jesus. Maybe you love and esteem the Lord Jesus more than me.
What does that have to do with "... and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
He is my Lord and I surrender my life to him.
Pray for me that I do so also. And I do !
This has no effect on the truth of John 1:1
His suffering and work means much more to me, knowing he was a man.
Now he is a spiritual being, just like his Father.
Here are more verses to ponder...
Because I confess Jesus is God does not mean I don't believe that Jesus is a man.
Some people seem to have a mistaken idea that if Jesus is God then He cannot be a man, a man who lived, suffered, died, and rose. But the Apostle John told us "And the Word became flesh and tabernacle among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of an only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (John 1:14)
And that Word
John is talking about is the Word
that was with God and was God (John 1:1)[/b]
So John already told us that the man was God become flesh - God incarnated in the only Begotten from the Father. And John furthermore told us that they heard and saw and handled with their hands this "Word of life"
So you admire the humanity of Jesus. So do I very very much. The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)
Why can't I believe all these wonderful things about "the man Christ Jesus"
and also believe that He is God ?
Why do you insist I have to believe one or the other ?
Why do you insist that the two are mutually exclusive when the word of God testifies to both ?
Do you think our hearts are not able to contain both revelations ?
I think the Christians can believe both - Jesus is God and man.
1 Cor 15:25-28
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
How does any of this mean that the Word
was NOT God when John 1:1
says "and the Word was God"
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
You are suggesting that because of First Corinthians 15:25-28
I should not believe that "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
I am not going to reject John 1:1 because of 1 Cor. 15:25-28. I reserve the right to believe both. God whom I trust has testified to both. I don't believe that the Scripture is demanding that I make that kind of mutually exclusive trade off concerning the Person of Christ.