Is TRINITY Biblical??? Does TRINITY exsist in Godhead???

Originally posted by Rajk999
The trinity is a man-made doctrine created long after the time of Christ. It has no bearing on either the teachings of Christ or Paul neither of whom taught the doctrine. It has no bearing on anyone's salvation and its only significance is cultural, as some churches 'feel better' believing in it.

Christ went to great lengths to explain what was required f ...[text shortened]... nything about trinity. He was the Son of God, distinct and separate from God .. end of story.

Thnx for the comment!

But you mentioned He was the Son of God, distinct and separate from God, means though you deny trinity, indirectly accept it. Could you explain your statement plzz.

Originally posted by joelgeorge
Thnx for the comment!

But you mentioned [b]He was the Son of God, distinct and separate from God, means though you deny trinity, indirectly accept it. Could you explain your statement plzz.[/b]

How can I deny trinity and indirectly accept it, by that statement ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
How can I deny trinity and indirectly accept it, by that statement ?

You had said that Jesus was the son of God, distinct & Seperate from God!! So, you mean to say there are 2 persons in Godhead? Jesus & God? Are both same or are they different? Am confused by your statement!

Originally posted by joelgeorge
What is the soul/spirit & body made up of?? Are they made up of the same components??

Yah. This is a question that can be answered coherently. 🙄

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Yah. This is a question that can be answered coherently. 🙄

Welcome.. Whats your opinion about the components??

As long as someone proves that Soul, Body & Spirit is made of same matter, TRINITY stays ILLOGICAL!!!

If TRINITY claims that all the 3 persons in the GODHEAD are co-equal, co-eternal, co-existent & made of the same substance; then, please answer the following with respect to the example mentioned : "MAN".

1. Does Soul, Body & Spirit of a MAN have these three qualities of co-equality, co-eternity & co-existentency because GOD made man in HIS own image (GOD/TRINITY made MAN in the IMAGE of TRINITY) ?

2. According to the BIBLE, after death "WE Return to the DUST", So what happens to the 3 parts of MAN? How many parts will join the DUST & particularly will the Soul & Spirit join the dust if all 3 parts of a MAN are co-equal, co-eternal, co-existent?

3. If all 3 parts of MAN, are made of same substance, How do the 3 exsist if they are of the same substance, and why are we not able to seperate the 3 & make it clear & distinct? Why cant we see the Soul & Spirit?

4. If you as a Christian happen to get cancer, which part of You gets affected by Cancer; Is it the Soul/Body or Spirit? Why don't you use Medical Aids, rather than going to church/ praying/ prasing, to cure your cancerous Spirit & Soul?

5. If the parts of MAN are made of the same substance, Why do You go to church for Spiritual Food? Cant your Soul & Spirit survive with the best cusines you feed the BODY and do you call the same EQUALITY between the Members?

Dont you guys think its Partiality?? 🙁

Originally posted by joelgeorge
Dear Friends, I am indeed glad for a Spiritual Forum in this website & I thank the administrators for the same.

Now, I would like all my dear friends who knows about trinity to post in their "FOR" & "AGAINST" views as to if TRINITY is Biblical??? And if it is Biblical does TRINITY exsist in Godhead???

Kindly explain everything you feel about trini ...[text shortened]... rom other websites!!

Atheists are also most welcome to post in their views.

Regards..

I do not think there is significant evidence for the Trinity in the Scriptures. Had I been given the Bible, without any catechetical instruction from a Trinititarian Christian of some description, I would never think of the idea. The fact is that the doctrine of the Trinity emerged after significant debate among early Church Fathers. Some Trinitarian theology remains unresolved (consider, for example, the filioque clause which remains a point of contention between Catholic and Orthodox unity.) I suspect that most Christians are secretly modalists, believing the Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit are the same person - just modes of God.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I do not think there is significant evidence for the Trinity in the Scriptures. Had I been given the Bible, without any catechetical instruction from a Trinititarian Christian of some description, I would never think of the idea. The fact is that the doctrine of the Trinity emerged after significant debate among early Church Fathers. Some Trinitarian theolo ...[text shortened]... dalists, believing the Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit are the same person - just modes of God.

I think, we should think over it!! Its pretty logical.

But I wonder why Christians should secretly believe something that is there in the Bible!

GOK (God Only Knows) how many will reach Heaven!!

So according to our friend, Father, Son & the Holy Spirit is Just the same 1 PERSON & not 3 PERSONS!

Can we have someone to disagree?? And my question to the above post is, "IS GOD A PERSON?"

Originally posted by joelgeorge
I think, we should think over it!! Its pretty logical.

But I wonder why Christians should secretly believe something that is there in the Bible!

GOK (God Only Knows) how many will reach Heaven!!

So according to our friend, Father, Son & the Holy Spirit is Just the same 1 PERSON & not 3 PERSONS!

Can we have someone to disagree?? And my question to the above post is, "IS GOD A PERSON?"

So you tell us, who is Jesus considering the statement made by him in John 8:58 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am."? If you read on, they took up stones to cast at him for blasphemy. Why? In fact, he was sent to the cross on charges of blasphemy. So if he was not making himself an equal to God then why was this the case?

Originally posted by whodey
So you tell us, who is Jesus considering the statement made by him in John 8:58 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am."? If you read on, they took up stones to cast at him for blasphemy. Why? In fact, he was sent to the cross on charges of blasphemy. So if he was not making himself an equal to God then why was this the case?

You are right! I dont disagree with this point.

What Jesus was trying to do was making HIM equal to GOD, to prove that he was God, but was he making himself distinct from God the Father?

I feel according to this verse HE was claiming to be the Father GOD, So now I feel, both Father & Son should be one & the same, probably the same beign change its "Title" from Father to "Son"..

So, I dont know, if it is logical to think, Jesus was the Father! After all "Nothing is impossible for GOD"!

Coments Plz...

Originally posted by whodey
So you tell us, who is Jesus considering the statement made by him in John 8:58 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am."? If you read on, they took up stones to cast at him for blasphemy. Why? In fact, he was sent to the cross on charges of blasphemy. So if he was not making himself an equal to God then why was this the case?

You gave an example of TRINITY, that is, MAN, who is made up of : Soul, body & Spirit..

Sir, Kindly answer the questions I have posted after that before I explain your post! Or we would be just beating around the bush!! Lets go step by step. If you beleive in TRINITY, feel free to answer them.

Originally posted by joelgeorge
You are right! I dont disagree with this point.

What Jesus was trying to do was making HIM equal to GOD, to prove that he was God, but was he making himself distinct from God the Father?

I feel according to this verse HE was claiming to be the Father GOD, So now I feel, both Father & Son should be one & the same, probably the same beign change its think, Jesus was the Father! After all "Nothing is impossible for GOD"!

Coments Plz...

Jesus never claimed to be the Father. In fact, he taught his followers to pray to the Father in his name. So the question begs, if he has elevated himself to the level of the Father and made a distinction between he and the Father what is being said? No matter if you think Christ is part of the Trinity or some other deity you must concede one thing and that is he lowered himself to our level to be born into this world which in an of itself is a reason to create a distinction. Now as for JW's they believe that Christ was the angel Michael. I know because I have talked with one, however, it is a pity that there is ZERO evidence for this. In addition, it should be troubling that Christ is worshiped in the Bible if he is not part of the Trinity. After all, would it not then be idol worship? Is not idol worship worshiping the created over the Creator?

Other indication are how his disciples referred to Christ. In John 20:28 his disciple Thomas refers to Jesus as, "My Lord and my God". Then in John 1:1 we see God being referred to as "The Word". Then in 1:14 we see "The Word" being made flesh. So you see, there are plenty of reasons why people believe that the Bible teaches about the Trinity even though it may not refer to the word Trinity.

Originally posted by whodey
Jesus never claimed to be the Father. In fact, he taught his followers to pray to the Father in his name. So the question begs, if he has elevated himself to the level of the Father and made a distinction between he and the Father what is being said? No matter if you think Christ is part of the Trinity or some other deity you must concede one thing and tha ...[text shortened]... hat the Bible teaches about the Trinity even though it may not refer to the word Trinity.

You raise a side-issue. While Scripture might confirm the divinity of Christ, this is very far from a proof of the Trinity. And even the divinity of Christ is a contentious issue enough -- recall when Jesus is called Lord, and he answers "Why do you call me Lord? For only God is Lord" (I cannot recall the verses exactly).

Originally posted by joelgeorge
You are right! I dont disagree with this point.

What Jesus was trying to do was making HIM equal to GOD, to prove that he was God, but was he making himself distinct from God the Father?

I feel according to this verse HE was claiming to be the Father GOD, So now I feel, both Father & Son should be one & the same, probably the same beign change its ...[text shortened]... think, Jesus was the Father! After all "Nothing is impossible for GOD"!

Coments Plz...

But later Jesus said that he and the father are different:

(king James Version)(John)

(Jn-5-31)(If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.)
(Jn-5-32)(There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.)
(Jn-5-33)(Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.)
(Jn-5-34)(But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.)
(Jn-5-35)(He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.)
(Jn-5-36)(But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.)
(Jn-5-37)(And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.)

Here he declares that his witness to himself is not true[31], then says that there is another that will witness to him (not himself)[32], then tells us that this witness is not a man [34], then in [36] he talks about the first witness which is his works, and in [37] he announces the second witness, the father that sent him. Now we know from [31,32] that the witnesses are not Jesus. so the father and Jesus can't be the same person from what Jesus said himself.

Do you have any comment?

Originally posted by ahosyney
But later Jesus said that he and the father are different:

(king James Version)(John)

(Jn-5-31)[b](If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.)
(Jn-5-32)(There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.)
(Jn-5-33)(Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.)
( ...[text shortened]... er and Jesus can't be the same person from what Jesus said himself.

Do you have any comment?[/b]

even more than that my friend, the scriptures indicate that he never ever considered himself to be equal with Almighty God

'Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.'

Philippians 2:5-7

Originally posted by joelgeorge
I think, we should think over it!! Its pretty logical.

But I wonder why Christians should secretly believe something that is there in the Bible!

GOK (God Only Knows) how many will reach Heaven!!

So according to our friend, Father, Son & the Holy Spirit is Just the same 1 PERSON & not 3 PERSONS!

Can we have someone to disagree?? And my question to the above post is, "IS GOD A PERSON?"

I am not arguing that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person. This is counter to the very idea of the Trinity. If you look into Orthodox Christianity, you will find that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all regarded as separate persons, with seperate roles and powers. They are different. Latin Christianity however has often emphasised the other side: that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit share in the one divine essence; they are separate from each other yet not divisible because they each partake in the divine essence which cannot be made into parts (hence the formula -- the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God; but the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Holy Spirit). Whichever perspective, Trinitarian theology in these two camps recognises that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separate persons.