Jesus

Originally posted by daniel58
1. Allah; the name of God among Muslims and Christ aren't inter-changeable.

2. Aliens aren't underground.

1.they are just names. artifices. names are readily interchangeable
2.how do you know?

1. No we give names to things for a reason if I called Obama an idiot instead of Obama I might get in trouble, like cursing and stuff isn't the same as sasying you're cool.

2. Dig underground and tell me when you find them.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
[b]salvation of my being

Couldn't have pointed out your interests any better than you just did. If only the whole world would bend to your ego we could have peace, eh? Altho I must confess, other than me, me, and still more me I couldn't understand much of what you said. It was jibberish - substitute the word "Allah" for "Christ" and the meter rea ...[text shortened]... is all that matters. What would it take for the rest of existence to matter more than you?[/b]

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salvation of my being
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It doesn't say who this reply is addressed to TerrierJack.

But the salvation of "my being" is for the building up of the Nw Jerusalem a "city" of the millions or billions manifesting God for eternity, as the capital of the new universe for eternity.

So you see, far from the saved person's individual salvation only, that salvation is part of a much larger framework to accomplish God's eternal purpose of building New Jerusalem, also called the collective Bride and Wife of the Lamb (Christ) and the corporate tabernacle of God. That is a tabernacle of sons of God, throughly saved and deified human beings.

Individual spirituality is not the final goal.

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Couldn't have pointed out your interests any better than you just did.
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I still don't know who your comments are addressed to.

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If only the whole world would bend to your ego we could have peace, eh? Altho I must confess, other than me, me, and still more me I couldn't understand much of what you said.
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If the phrase "the will of God" causes you to shutter than I suggest that it is you who are too self bound. For God's will is the entire creation being freed into the glory of the children of God who take the lead.

"For the anxious watching of creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God... in hoipe that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (See Romans 8:19-21)

So you see my personal salvation is part of a much larger framework to release the entire creation into a freedom from death and decay to a glorious liberty.

In all you reply so far I have not yet seen an answer to my question. What do I gain, or anyone for that matter, if we drop the Gospel of Christ and pick up your philosophy?

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It was jibberish - substitute the word "Allah" for "Christ" and the meter reads about the same - its all about you.
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You are just exposing your own ignorance. The Quran never teaches that Allah was incarnated and came to produce sons of God.

And I still have not seen how your philosophy is better than Jesus Christ.

Is your poverty too great that you have nothing exciting to talk about?

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The particular divinity is inconsequential. The obsession with self-preservation (even in the face of death) is all that matters.
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More ignorance. You haven't heard that Jesus said who so follows Him must deny himself, pick up his cross and follow Him ?

Once again, the salvation of my individual soul is part of a grander and larger framework of the salvation of the universe.

What better do you have than what I am taught by Christ ?

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What would it take for the rest of existence to matter more than you?
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I think the ones who fearfully hold tight on themselves and are afraid to come to Christ as the hopeless sinners that they are are the ones who are too self centered.

It is your self centeredness which leads you to come here and display your sneers and jeers about the One who died for your sins.

And I am not surprised that you never told me what it is that you have which is superior to Jesus Christ.

Amen!

Originally posted by daniel58
1. No we give names to things for a reason if I called Obama an idiot instead of Obama I might get in trouble, like cursing and stuff isn't the same as sasying you're cool.

2. Dig underground and tell me when you find them.

1'God' has no name but for the sake of understanding one another we call it God
2.I don't need to dig. There are vast underground caves with all sorts of mysteries.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=====================================
salvation of my being
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It doesn't say who this reply is addressed to TerrierJack.

But the salvation of "my being" is for the building up of the Nw Jerusalem a "city" of the millions or billions manifesting God for eternity, as the capital of the new universe ou never told me what it is that you have which is superior to Jesus Christ.[/b]

C'mon Jaywill. It seems reasonably clear that his post was addressed to you. It also seems reasonably clear that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view with phrases such as "Christ offers me...", "How will it benefit me?", "what do you have that is better for me?", etc.

Does it ever strike you as odd that Christianity, by and large, teaches one to be self-centered while Jesus teaches one to be God-centered?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
1'God' has no name but for the sake of understanding one another we call it God
2.I don't need to dig. There are vast underground caves with all sorts of mysteries.

Twelve men, fishermen from Galilee, went from shivering cowards hiding out from angry mobs ready to torture followers of a strange renegade young unschooled Rabbi, were suddenly transformed into fearless witnesses to the resurrection of their teacher.

As far as history informs us they gave up their lives for this resurrected Lord Jesus. The awesome and cruel power of the Roman Empire was not able to persecute them to non-existence either by crucificion, burning alive, wild beasts, exile, threats and being driven underground forbidden to meet in public.

This is history. This is not "Once upon a time in a far off land" fairy tale.

Only Nepolean and Abraham Lincoln have had perhaps HALF as many books written about them. More have been written about Jesus, who in three and one half years opened His mouth and said things that have made such an edilible mark on human history as to me totally phenomenal. And He is reported to have done things which match the encredible power of His words.

No man ever made such claims as Jesus although men have made great claims for themselves for sure.

The Bible has been whittled, chisled, hammered, spliced, diced, attacked, pounded for 2000 years. The faith is still spreading that Christ is the Savior and Son of God. Jesus occupies a class of historical figures who have only one member. The second most intriguing human being, whoever might be that candidate, does not come close in impact on the world as Jesus.

I don't think your little zany flight into fancy about little men guarding underground treasures, as clever and amusing as you may think it is, captures the enigma of what makes Jesus Christ and His claims so continuously captivating around the world and through the centries.

I believe that this Man could not have been concocted out of the imagination of mankind. I don't believe that people would invent a fictional character like Jesus even if it were possible to do so.

And whoever imagined up such a figure, ... the world needs to find that person and soak their imagination for whatever wisdom more he or she has, for all it is worth.

Christ is believable. And the power of the message and personality of Jesus Christ is almost "terrible" in love, righteousness and holiness. He was not just good. He was gloriously good.

I think He is God become a Man.

Originally posted by jaywill
Twelve men, fishermen from Galilee, went from shivering cowards hiding out from angry mobs ready to torture followers of a strange renegade young unschooled Rabbi, were suddenly transformed into fearless witnesses to the resurrection of their teacher.

As far as history informs us they gave up their lives for this resurrected Lord Jesus. The awesome and c ...[text shortened]... liness. He was not just good. He was gloriously good.

I think He is God become a Man.

"Jesus occupies a class of hisrorical figures who have only one member. The second most intriguing human being,whoever might be that candidate, does not come close in impact on the world as Jesus."

If you are talking about historical figures who have been enlightened I agree ,the number is very small. But it is not one.

There have been many people who have had unusually strong impact on the world. Jesus was one for sure. But to say no-one else comes close truly highlights the narrow-mindedness of your thinking.

Jesus was a great man who clearly left a powerful ,enduring legcy.
Was there no-one behind the scenes who has shaped this world as much as Jesus?
come now Jaywill, I think you say a lot of contentious things but this has by far got to be one of the most far-fetched. It makes me think that JC would be cringing in his little box at the very thought!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
C'mon Jaywill. It seems reasonably clear that his post was addressed to you. It also seems reasonably clear that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view with phrases such as "Christ offers me...", "How will it benefit me?", "what do you have that is better for me?", etc.

Does it ever strike you as odd that Christianity, by and large, teaches one to be self-centered while Jesus teaches one to be God-centered?

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C'mon Jaywill. It seems reasonably clear that his post was addressed to you.
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C'mon THinkoOne, I went on that assumption. Didn't I?

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It also seems reasonably clear that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view with phrases such as "Christ offers me...", "How will it benefit me?", "what do you have that is better for me?", etc.
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No apologies. And the question remains that same.

I think it is phony when people hide that fact that they have nothing to offer behind the fascade that the questioner is too self centered.

Its just an excuse. But for the record I also expanded the request to include anyone for the matter, if you read my reply carefully.

I've been at this a long time and reconize most of the games skeptics play.

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Does it ever strike you as odd that Christianity, by and large, teaches one to be self-centered while Jesus teaches one to be God-centered?
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Yes.

And you seem totally to have missed what I wrote about the "larger framework".

Go back and read how I responded that my personal salvation was not the ultimate goal but it fitted into a larger frame work of the salvation of the universe.

I didn't just make that up. It is right there in the Bible. See Romans 8.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
"Jesus occupies a class of hisrorical figures who have only one member. The second most intriguing human being,whoever might be that candidate, does not come close in impact on the world as Jesus."

If you are talking about historical figures who have been enlightened I agree ,the number is very small. But it is not one.

There have been many people ...[text shortened]... ar-fetched. It makes me think that JC would be cringing in his little box at the very thought!

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Was there no-one behind the scenes who has shaped this world as much as Jesus?
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Where did I say Jesus "shaped this world"?.

Originally posted by jaywill
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Was there no-one behind the scenes who has shaped this world as much as Jesus?
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Where did I say Jesus "shaped this world"?.[/b]

I thought you meant shaped when you said 'impacted'.
What did you mean if not shaped?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I thought you meant shaped when you said 'impacted'.
What did you mean if not shaped?

Rather than shape the world system, I think He provided the strongest alternative to it, an anti-testimony of another way to live.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=========================
C'mon Jaywill. It seems reasonably clear that his post was addressed to you.
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C'mon THinkoOne, I went on that assumption. Didn't I?

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It also seems reasonably clear that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view with phrases such as "C erse.

I didn't just make that up. It is right there in the Bible. See Romans 8.

[/b]"C'mon THinkoOne, I went on that assumption. Didn't I?

TJ made the following statement:
"Couldn't have pointed out your interests any better than you just did."

You made the following statement instead of addressing his point:
"I still don't know who your comments are addressed to."

It was clearly a dodge. Why don't you just admit it?

"I think it is phony when people hide that fact that they have nothing to offer behind the fascade that the questioner is too self centered.

Its just an excuse. But for the record I also expanded the request to include anyone for the matter, if you read my reply carefully.

And you seem totally to have missed what I wrote about the "larger framework".

Go back and read how I responded that my personal salvation was not the ultimate goal but it fitted into a larger frame work of the salvation of the universe. "

Lets look at TJ's assertion:
"So to argue about them is to be distracted from the real concerns of humanity that so urgently need to be addressed. What are doing as a species about the coming big-rock? Can we reverse the damage that we have inflicted on the eco-system? Can we stop arguing (and killing each other) about trivia long enough to value our future of our children? Weigh all this against the massive insecurity that must drive someone to seek personal salvation and I think you'll understand why "Jesus wept." Today he would cry a river.

The gist of his argument seems to be that Christians are more concerned about their "personal salvation" than about loving one's neighbor and being good stewards of this planet.

Here was your initial response in it's entirety:
Christ has an answer for the problem of sin and death. He has an answer to the problem of my existence, why I am here.

Jesus Christ offers me total peace as to my sinful past and empowering grace for the present as well as undying hope for the future.

Christ offers me transformation into His glorious image. I can see it happening and others around me can also.

Christ offers me the gift of eternal life and the love of a family of brothers and sisters in Christ around the world. He offers me sweet fellowship and oneness with millions of fellow believers.

Christ offers me what I firmly believe is the truth about life as opposed to so many missteps and outright lies of the blind leading the blind.

Christ offers me the salvation of my being and the the environment of this world in which I live - a world to come free from sin, death, and unrighteousness where there are tears no more.

Christ offers me a life meaningful from second to second and adventure to be one with Him in God's eternal plan. Christ offers me the assurance of final victory and joy in my heart the carries me through trials and tribulations of every kind. He has never let me down.


Now if I drop my experience of Jesus Christ and take up your philosophy, how will it benefit me? What does your philosophy have to offer concerning these vital questions of man's existence ?

Other than stand along the sideline and jeer, what do you have that is better for me than Jesus Christ the Son of God ??

Clearly this is the post of someone primarily interested in himself and what he GETS. It wasn't until the post after TJ called you on it did you "expand the request to include anyone for the matter", speak about the "larger framework", say that your "personal salvation was not the ultimate goal".

Even at that in the middle of it you say "In all you reply so far I have not yet seen an answer to my question. What do I gain, or anyone for that matter, if we drop the Gospel of Christ and pick up your philosophy?". It's a self-centered point of view. Even when you include "anyone for that matter" it's to ask about their SELF-interests. It's what do I GET, what do we GET. It's not what can I GIVE, what can we GIVE. I really hope you take the time to reflect on this, gain some perspective and get out of denial.

Originally posted by daniel58
1. Allah; the name of God among Muslims and Christ aren't inter-changeable.

2. Aliens aren't underground.

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Arabic-speaking Christians use that word, as well as Muslims.