Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
To me, it is theism, especially your particular flavor which I like to call me-theism, that makes claims beyond our actual knowledge.
Claims such as:
- There has always been a super-powerful being
- ... that created the universe and everything in it
- ...and is lonely, and wants to be your friend
- ...and will let you live on after you die
- ...[text shortened]... e if I find it a bit rich for you to lecture others on their reach exceeding their grasp.
To me, it is theism, especially your particular flavor which I like to call me-theism, that makes claims beyond our actual knowledge.
I've been hearing about this "me-thiesm" for few months now. I'm getting curious. Who started this little label "me-theism" - some prominent Internet Infidel ?
Its cute. Who coined that phrase ?
Have you heard about "faithiest" ? Sure, some guy wrote a book on being a new kind of religiously sympathetic athiest - a
"Faithest".
Claims such as:
- There has always been a super-powerful being
Well, since Time, I think, is something God has created for our existence and not because He needs it, we have to borrow such phrases like "there has always been".
We can hardly think in terms other than pertaining to the realm in which we exist. I do believe God always was, in that since.
Indulge me a little -
"O Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth and before You gave birth to the earth and the world, Indeed from eternity to eternity You are God." (Psalm 90:1,2)
God has always been. A mind blower.
- ... that created the universe and everything in it
Yes. I believe this. It is the very FIRST thing that the revelation of God tells us up front - the very first verse in the Bible.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)
- ...and is lonely, and wants to be your friend
The Bible concludes with a divine
marriage. The processed Triune God and His "city" of billions of people to be His loving counterpart.
However, before the world was we see the Trinity in some mysterious eternal inner enjoyment quite beyond our ability to fully comprehend.
"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for you loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
It seems that before the creation of space, time, matter - the whole universe
(before the foundation of the world) the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit had some co-eternal, co-existence in beginning-less and endless divine love.
That I cannot explain. But if the Word that became flesh,
"was with God, and ... was God" (John 1:1) and the Father loved the Son before the foundation of the world, then I suppose we are joining the love that was eternally there.
Can we really then speak of God as being lonely in that sense ?
Maybe. But maybe not.
- ...and will let you live on after you die
I believe that you exist after you die.
I believe that you will be resurrected - body, soul, and spirit some time after you expire.
Eternal life is not just a immaterial soul living forever. It took a while for me. But eventually I realized from reading the Bible that God's full salvation covers the physical body, the soul and spirit, and the outward environment. It is an exceedingly
practical salvation.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." (Rev. 21:1)
That is a new universe and within it eternally living sons of God -
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me." (Rev. 21:7)
Here
"My son" does not mean sexual male. It means have the same life and nature as God. Elsewhere, that we may not be mistaken, the Scriptures says
"sons and daughters" .
"And I will be Father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Cor. 6:18)
It is so good read things first hand from the word of God. But my point is that this so-called "afterlife" which some refer to includes the practicality of all three parts of human being -
"spirit and soul and body" plus the environment God created for man.
- ...and will let the people who would not be his friend live on, but in a permanently miserable state
Now here is an interesting point. I put it this way:
There is no question that God desires all men to be saved from sinning against His holy perfection and perfect righteousness. But no one is coerced against his or her will to be justified.
So if one choosing to have nothing to do with God remains unjustified, should God have to recuse Himself from judgment ? I mean, He loved the sinner and was refused by the sinner. So should God, because He had a vested interest, be recused from being Judge ?
But who else is in a position to judge? Who else with infallible knowledge of situations, circumstances, motive, and intention be
qualified to do the judging ? No one else is qualified. No one else has the authority. No one else has the power to enforce penalties as God. It is simply His sad position to have to carry out what is His obligation to perform.
We do not have to respond to His love. We can choose to have nothing to do with His redemptive love. But we should not expect that the Almighty and Creator should recuse Himself from acting as Governor over His creation and doing the work of judgment.
The Bible calls judgment God's "strange" work, as if it is strange that He should have to judge at all. But He has to.
Now if I come before the traffic court judge who fines me, it is lame for me to accuse him of having his personal feelings hurt. He is not performing a vendetta, if he is a righteous judge. A judge is not suppose to be a slave of preferential treatment with a vested vendetta. He or she is suppose to be a dispenser of pure justice.
That's a human judge. What about God ?
If the sinner who refuses to accept Justification and Salvation perish, it will be because of straight justice and not because the sad enforcer of the sentence has a personal vendetta.
I think this is what you need to contemplate more. As much as God has shown His love for the sinner, He will not give up His perfect righteousness for anything or anyone forever.
Someone might complain -
"God, I know you are perfect. Couldn't You just make it as if I had never sinned at all ? "
The answer is in essence
"I did, on Calvary, in Jesus Christ My Son. And you refused that offer. What else can I now do? "
These are clearly speculation at best, and yet you make them with all the certainty of the Laws of Gravity. You'll have to pardon me if I find it a bit rich for you to lecture others on their reach exceeding their grasp.
Well, I think you should get saved too, like I did. At least I think you should start reading through
Matthew to
John before you depart this world.
Kalam cosmological argument
05 May '14 14:14
Back to Top