Memorable Conversions

Originally posted by whodey
As you point out, we all have a sense of right and wrong, some of it is right, some of it is wrong. Why then should we have the right to murder because of it?

But I haven't argued that anyone "should have the right to murder because of [religion]" ~ haven't you read a word I've written?

Originally posted by FMF
But I haven't argued that anyone "should have the right to murder because of [religion]" ~ haven't you read a word I've written?

You, as well as everyone else, should condemn a religion that teaches that it's followers can murder people.

Originally posted by whodey
You, as well as everyone else, should condemn a religion that teaches that it's followers can murder people.

I have condemned the murder of people, and I have condemned people who try to justify murder through claims that they are doing "God's Will". None of the Muslims I know - live among - and work with - believe that their religion teaches them to murder people nor that their religion teaches that they can murder people.

So I think the best bet is to condemn the actions of those who believe that they can murder people because they believe their religion teaches them they can. In this matter, I am going further than you. I condemn their murdering. And I reject and condemn the justification they claim to have for their murdering. You, by contrast, were at pains on earlier pages not to condemn anyone: You said twice - earlier on this thread - that you do not want to condemn anyone ~ "I condemn no one, including Muslims" and "I am not condemning anyone here". Like I said, I think you are very mistaken to take this stance. You should take a leaf from my book.

Originally posted by whodey
So for the record, you think that Christianity is equivalent to Islam even though one religion has an open ended command to murder and the other does not?

If you want me to reassure you and tell you your Abraham-related superstitions ~ as they pertain to the here and now ~ are benign compared to the Abraham-related superstitions of Muslims-Who-Murder-Apostates [as they too pertain to the here and now], then, sure, I can do it. Absolutely. No doubt about it. Let me reassure you. You are benign whodey. And they are malignant. I condemn them for the things they do that you don't do.

But discussing "justice" and "morality" with you is complicated by the fact that you make the claim that you know "God's Will". I have no convincing reason to believe that you do, just as I have no convincing reason to believe that Muslims-Who-Murder-Apostates do. Sorry to lump you together ~ but you have more in common with them than I do.

You mark yourself out as having to be spoken to in a certain way, and within certain terms of reference, because you make elaborate claims about your knowledge of supernatural things, for which you offer no credible supporting evidence. So, well done whodey for not advocating the "execution"/murder of anyone for religious reasons. But this important point of difference between you and the Muslims-Who-Murder-Apostates, does not eliminate all the commonality that you do share with them.

Originally posted by FMF
I have condemned the murder of people, and I have condemned people who try to justify murder through claims that they are doing "God's Will". None of the Muslims I know - live among - and work with - believe that their religion teaches them to murder people nor that their religion teaches that they can murder people.

So I think the best bet is to condemn the ...[text shortened]... I said, I think you are very mistaken to take this stance. You should take a leaf from my book.

People condemn themselves by their actions, not I.

Originally posted by whodey
People condemn themselves by their actions, not I.

What utter nonsense. The murderers we are talking about believe they know, and are acting upon, the Abrahamuc God's will. They aren't "condemning themselves".

Originally posted by FMF
What utter nonsense. The murderers we are talking about believe they know, and are acting upon, the Abrahamuc God's will. They aren't "condemning themselves".

Murderers will only be condemned by a higher authority, whether it be man or God or both.

I have no such powers.

Originally posted by whodey
Murderers will only be condemned by a higher authority, whether it be man or God or both.

I have no such powers.

Well as far as those murderers are concerned, their "higher authority" - the Abrahamic God - the same God as you claim has communicated with you - has told them to condemn and execute apostates. That your religious beliefs render you unable to condemn their murders, and the 'divine inspiration' justification they cite, is pitiful.

Originally posted by FMF
Goodness me. All we do here is exchange our opinions and offer our analysis and reasons. Perhaps you haven't fathomed that. If not, then it is more evidence that you are a buffoon.

Exchanging opinions and offering analysis and reasons is buffoonery if you do it with the assumption that there is no view that is more correct than another in the first place. What is the point of a discussion if everyone's view is relatively right?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Exchanging opinions and offering analysis and reasons is buffoonery if you do it with the assumption that there is no view that is more correct than another in the first place. What is the point of a discussion if everyone's view is relatively right?

The point of discussion is for each of us to consider and evaluate the views of others.

Originally posted by FMF
The point of discussion is for each of us to consider and evaluate the views of others.

Evaluating something with 'no framework-independent vantage point from which the matter of whether the thing in question is so can be established', is a waste of time.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Evaluating something with 'no framework-independent vantage point from which the matter of whether the thing in question is so can be established', is a waste of time.

You don't have an "independent vantage point" and you continuously suggesting that you somehow do, despite the ample intellectual and interpersonal evidence to the contrary, is easily the most prominent waste of time that is occurring in any discussion of things that people attempt to have with you.

Originally posted by FMF
You don't have an "independent vantage point" and you continuously suggesting that you somehow do, despite the ample intellectual and interpersonal evidence to the contrary, is easily the most prominent waste of time that is occurring in any discussion of things that people attempt to have with you.

Arguing with a relativist is a waste of time since you can always keep shifting the goalposts.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Arguing with a relativist is a waste of time since you can always keep shifting the goalposts.

Perhaps you ought not to waste your time then.

Originally posted by FMF
Perhaps you ought not to waste your time then.

I'll leave you to it then.