12 May '06 21:24>
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAre you saying he doesn't have free will?
He's already been sentenced; this is just the appeal phase of the trial. He'll even get a shot at incarceration, and that won't change him, either.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHfascinating Byzantine forum !
[b]Was satan created, lived, and sentenced all before man was created but withing the time of the universe?
Yes, prior to human history. Man was created to resolve the angelic conflict, and he inhabits the very sphere previously inhabited by Satan when he was Lucifer.
Hence I must be not intelligent enough to know what the right choice is (or s ...[text shortened]... s clearly as the past and present. This present reality is merely for our benefit, not His.
Originally posted by ChurlantI cannot see a "loving" God allowing Lucifer to continue existing, yet not be held accountable for doing so.
I cannot see a "loving" God allowing Lucifer to continue existing, yet not be held accountable for doing so.
If the state allowed a vicious killer to remain free, I suspect a few calls to the Governor's office would be in order - even without the convenience of knowing for sure whether said killer would actually harm anyone (omniscience, in other words). ...[text shortened]... t, no one seems to hold Him to His responsibility in the matter. I wonder why that is?
-JC
Originally posted by bbarrWell, there you go again. For some odd reason, you often (repeatedly, consistently) confuse God's will with God's desires. Oh, well, you'll figure it out someday, I'm sure.
Because allowing Lucifer to roam free is a necessary condition of this being the best of all possible worlds. A world is the best of all possible worlds if and only if it corresponds perfectly to the will of God. So, God allowed Lucifer to roam free because God willed that Lucifer roam free. Dizzy yet?
Originally posted by ChurlantAlmost sounds as though you are saying God needs Satan. Silly. Man had free will prior to Satan tricking the woman in the Garden. He was simply used as a test. How we do on the quiz means everything.
I believe the standard "explanation" is that we, as humans with free (and sometimes evil) will "allow" Lucifer to remain through our negative actions and if he were removed by God, this event would contradict God's promise of free will.
In other words, it's obviously our fault because God is supposed to be infallible. How nice for Him.
-JC
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhy is that? You have already indicated Satan will not be saved, so what is the point of allowing him to continue causing pain and misery?
Surely a just God would give Lucifer (now Satan) every opportunity to prove his objection worthy of being sustained?
[/b]
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWell, no. We need Satan in order to provide God with an excuse. If He has a hand in everything that happens - an alcohol-related driving accident that kills a daughter - then True Believers certainly need a scapegoat (hm.. Bible humor...).
Almost sounds as though you are saying God needs Satan. Silly. Man had free will prior to Satan tricking the woman in the Garden. He was simply used as a test. How we do on the quiz means everything.
Originally posted by 7ate9I entirely agree. Humanity does enough evil (and good) on its own. There is hardly a need for either a God or Satan to justify these things, except as a coping mechanism for the harsher realities of life.
a judge from a town i lived in had his daughter die because of a drunk driver. the idiot goes above the law and always hands out harsher sentences to people caught drink-driving. it's sad his daughter died, but it is wrong of him to go above the law because of his personal problems.
God, the devil. naa, i would say that is people who made a wrong choice.
Originally posted by ChurlantDid you think Satan was going around poking people with a pitchfork? Satan is doing everything in his power to prove that God is not a necessary element of the possession and performance of intrinsic good.
Why is that? You have already indicated Satan will not be saved, so what is the point of allowing him to continue causing pain and misery?
-JC
Originally posted by Churlant"God works in mysterious ways" as a lone theory does get somewhat old after a few hundred years, I would think.
Well, no. We need Satan in order to provide God with an excuse. If He has a hand in everything that happens - an alcohol-related driving accident that kills a daughter - then True Believers certainly need a scapegoat (hm.. Bible humor...).
"God works in mysterious ways" as a lone theory does get somewhat old after a few hundred years, I would think.
-JC