Originally posted by twhitehead So is he outside time like God or within the universe?
God and you know that he wont change (and I am sure he over heard us speaking) so what happened to his free will?
Just like us God created him, gave him free will, but neglected to give him the intelligence to know what the right choices were. Surely that comes down to negligence on Gods part?
Originally posted by twhitehead So is he outside time like God or within the universe?
God and you know that he wont change (and I am sure he over heard us speaking) so what happened to his free will?
Just like us God created him, gave him free will, but neglected to give him the intelligence to know what the right choices were. Surely that comes down to negligence on Gods part?
No he isn't outside of time, he is just a created being full of himself.
Kelly
Originally posted by gambit3 It is too late for that. He has committed the unpardonable sin. He has totally and completely rejected God's way for himself.
Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
First things first. Satan was never lucifer. The image never changed. We have different names for him, but he's still the same entity. Second, God never willed Lucifer into being to hold an equilibriam in the master plan. Lucifer was Saint Lucious, God's right hand man. He didn't have free will but he was jelous of Man. He foresake Man for taking God's attention away from him. He is THE fallen angel. Thirdly, religion is fiction. Great story but never to be believed. Tolkien wrote better.
Originally posted by receda First things first. Satan was never lucifer. The image never changed. We have different names for him, but he's still the same entity. Second, God never willed Lucifer into being to hold an equilibriam in the master plan. Lucifer was Saint Lucious, God's right hand man. He didn't have free will but he was jelous of Man. He foresake Man for taking God's attent ...[text shortened]... l. Thirdly, religion is fiction. Great story but never to be believed. Tolkien wrote better.
Illogical. If Saint Lucious didn't have free will, he would not have been capable of rejecting God OR Man.
Now in our modern forward thinking times, we are able to pick apart the story and find faults. Eg. men don't have 1 less rib so God never created Eve from Adam's rib. Adam's apple... How else do you describe the meaning of temptation to a group of desert dwellers. A crisp cold juicy apple. All fiction full of flaws.
Originally posted by receda Now in our modern forward thinking times, we are able to pick apart the story and find faults. Eg. men don't have 1 less rib so God never created Eve from Adam's rib. Adam's apple... How else do you describe the meaning of temptation to a group of desert dwellers. A crisp cold juicy apple. All fiction full of flaws.
You won't receive an argument from me on this point, however I believe the thread's initial question requires we accept the "fiction" as fact - at least within the context of this hypothetical inquiry.
Originally posted by Churlant Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
-JC
I guess it is impossible to be at to point of no return. I still say Lucifer is at the point of no return. He has become the devil and satan. He absolutely rejects God's way in everything he does. I doubt satan will even speak any of God's names.
Originally posted by gambit3 I guess it is impossible to be at to point of no return. I still say Lucifer is at the point of no return. He has become the devil and satan. He absolutely rejects God's way in everything he does. I doubt satan will even speak any of God's names.
God apparently doesn't believe you. He is giving Satan plenty of time to repent, it seems.
Originally posted by Churlant God apparently doesn't believe you. He is giving Satan plenty of time to repent, it seems.
-JC
Seems more to me that satan is a tool that God is using. This blasted world is all that satan is going to have. It is his kingdom. How do you like satan's kingdom rules so far?
Originally posted by Churlant Originally posted by FreakyKBH Since God saw fit to allow Satan an appeal process (which, IMO shows supreme confidence in the 'rightness' of His position)
I can appreciate an appeals process. What I can't appreciate is allowing Satan to remain free during that process, especially when God already knows how that appeal will end. While you may ...[text shortened]... is purpose" is simply "God works in mysterious ways" in different clothing.
-JC[/b]
What I can't appreciate is allowing Satan to remain free during that process, especially when God already knows how that appeal will end. Part of the appeal argument, unfortunately. Satan's mulitple charges includes the right to accuse believers of their willful wrongs, in addition to exercising the authority over the earth given to him by default in the Garden.
While you may not be worried about "purpose", I find the concept of letting such evil to act freely highly sadistic. I never worry about the little things, I suppose.
As an example, each attempt I make at questioning how one could logically consider a God that allows a being such as Satan to remain free as "loving" seems to be met with avoidance. I trust that I have not avoided the question. If so, I know Scripture certainly has not avoided the same.
Originally posted by Churlant Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
-JC
If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible. Unfortunately, not a possibility, and certainly not supported by the Bible.
13 May '06 16:21
Praying for Satan
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