RBHILL's Christianity

Originally posted by duecer
no... thats not whe xhe said. I believe xhe said our acts bear witness... different thing entirely

the 2 statments are compatable, but if you read them difrently, could you explain

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ was crystal clear in what He expects from us. I appreciate your problem though. Its not an easy matter to do what Christ said to do to get salvation. Its easy to live in a fools paradise and convince yourself that proclaiming your faith is all thats required.

by their fruits ye shall know them...yes? all good trees bear good fruit..correct? works are the fruit, the outward sign of our inward sanctification.
As for salvation : In John 3:16 Jesus says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”

belief is all that is necessary, works spring from that belief

Originally posted by duecer
by their fruits ye shall know them...yes? all good trees bear good fruit..correct? works are the fruit, the outward sign of our inward sanctification.
As for salvation : In John 3:16 Jesus says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”

belief is all that is necessary, works spring [b]from that belief[/b]

no they don't, works spring from the application of biblical knowledge and belief follows the thing that is heard, this is something quite different, for there are different kinds of works, James i am sure highlights dead works, but it is convenient for armchair Christians to adopt this type of reasoning.

what is more, many do believe and say to the Christ, 'lord lord did we not prophesy in your name, expel demons in your name etc etc', thus they certainly believed, but Christ says to them, 'i never knew you', why, for their works or actions were unacceptable, even though they believed.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no they don't, works spring from the application of biblical knowledge and belief follows the thing that is heard, this is something quite different, for there are different kinds of works, James i am sure highlights dead works, but it is convenient for armchair Christians to adopt this type of reasoning.

the argument here seems to be one of causation vs. corellation. On this matter we will have to disagree. Its like the question: which came first, the chicken or the egg? depends on your point of view

Originally posted by duecer
the argument here seems to be one of causation vs. corellation. On this matter we will have to disagree. Its like the question: which came first, the chicken or the egg? depends on your point of view

well at least this is something, that we agree to disagree, now back to the trinity discussion, for i am about to bring my pièce de résistance, platonic, Egyptian, Babylonian, Hindu and a whole host of other polytheistic cultures from whence your beloved trinity sprung.

Originally posted by duecer
by their fruits ye shall know them...yes? all good trees bear good fruit..correct? works are the fruit, the outward sign of our inward sanctification.
As for salvation : In John 3:16 Jesus says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”

belief is all that is necessary, works spring [b]from that belief[/b]

This thing called brainwashing is a hell of a dangerous thing. You are like that man who is so brainwashed by his wife into believing that she loves him and she is faithful, that when he and his friends caught them having sex, the man tells his friends .. " ... thats ME on top of my wife ... " ... 😀

That entire passage is telling you the same thing I have been saying. WORKS ARE AN ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT FOR SALVATION. Here is the passage. Read it again:

Matt 7:16 ...Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.

You are in agreement that WORKS ARE THE FRUIT, and the trees (good or bad) represent Christians who profess their belief.
What did Christ say about trees that do not bring forth good fruit ? Read it ... verse 19 :

... Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire...

Christians who do not do good works will not get salvation. Professing your belief with your mouth is necessary but is not sufficient. Works therefore are an essential part of ones salvation.

Originally posted by Rajk999
This thing called brainwashing is a hell of a dangerous thing. You are like that man who is so brainwashed by his wife into believing that she loves him and she is faithful, that when he and his friends caught them having sex, the man tells his friends .. " ... thats ME on top of my wife ... " ... 😀

That entire passage is telling you the same thing I hav ...[text shortened]... h is necessary but is not sufficient. Works therefore are an essential part of ones salvation.

again...since you did not read my last post, its an argument over perspective. Real Christians will do good works, wether by causation or corellation. You say that the works come first, I say the faith come first.

Can someone who doesn't believe but does all the work "just in case" receive salvation? what if someone has a death bed conversion experience but never has the opportunity to do any works?

Originally posted by duecer
again...since you did not read my last post, its an argument over perspective. Real Christians will do good works, wether by causation or corellation. You say that the works come first, I say the faith come first.

Can someone who doesn't believe but does all the work "just in case" receive salvation? what if someone has a death bed conversion experience but never has the opportunity to do any works?

DId I say works come first? Please show me where. Youre the one not understanding or reading.

Christ never said works come first, second or third
Christ never said faith comes first, second or third.
Christ never said anything about what causes - correlation or causation.
Christ never said anything about real christians vs not so real christians.

Christ said he is going to judge and reward according to works, and if you dont do good works you will not get salvation.

If you choose to add to what Christ said, thats your choice.

Originally posted by Rajk999
DId I say works come first? Please show me where. Youre the one not understanding or reading.

Christ never said works come first, second or third
Christ never said faith comes first, second or third.
Christ never said anything about what causes - correlation or causation.
Christ never said anything about real christians vs not so real christians.

C ...[text shortened]... orks you will not get salvation.

If you choose to add to what Christ said, thats your choice.

when you say that works are necessary for salvation, then you say works come first. 1+1=2

Originally posted by duecer
when you say that works are necessary for salvation, then you say works come first. 1+1=2

Christ said works are necessary. Not me.
Christ never said anything about works being the outward expression .... whatever. Thats rubbish talk. Thats propaganda.
Small minds like yours are easy prey to that kind of talk.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said works are necessary. Not me.
Christ never said anything about works being the outward expression .... whatever. Thats rubbish talk. Thats propaganda.
Small minds like yours are easy prey to that kind of talk.

Christ does NOT say that works are necessary, but rather by their works you would know them, a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless


from your own post above: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


prophesying and doing works in the name of the Lord will not get you into paradise my friend. First you must have faith. what follows naturally are works. If one truly believes, then through the sanctification process of the Holy spirit, they are moved to do works.

you still haven't answered my question about death bed conversion.

Originally posted by duecer
Christ does NOT say that works are necessary, but rather by their works you would know them, a subtle difference, but a difference nontheless

Matt 7:16 ...Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


IF YOU DONT DO GOOD WORKS YOU WILL BE CAST INTO THE FIRE.

Wont you say works are necessary for salvation?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Matt 7:16 ...Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[b]19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is ...[text shortened]... DO GOOD WORKS YOU WILL BE CAST INTO THE FIRE.

Wont you say works are necessary for salvation?

you were a little too fast in response, I edited my remarks as they were an incomplete thought. please read and respond to those.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Matt 7:16 ...Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[b]19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is ...[text shortened]... DO GOOD WORKS YOU WILL BE CAST INTO THE FIRE.

Wont you say works are necessary for salvation?

I say that works come naturally to those who are saved. Those who pay lip service to their faith and show up in church for appearances are not true Christians

edit: Here is a great explanation of faith and works etc...

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-E-10.htm

I think you will enjoy the read.

Originally posted by duecer
I say that works come naturally to those who are saved. Those who pay lip service to their faith and show up in church for appearances are not true Christians

edit: Here is a great explanation of faith and works etc...

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-E-10.htm

I think you will enjoy the read.

Sorry I dont need anyone explaining to me about salvation except Christ. Thanks for the link anyhow.