Salvation

Originally posted by blindfaith101
There are many that come to CHRIST. They recieve the Gifts of THE HOLY SPIRIT. They Preach, Sing, Dance, and Live for Christ. Then for what ever reason, they turn back into the World, back into a world of sin. Are they still Saved? No.
Did they not throw their Salvation away? As long as they are alive, they can Repent, and turn from their sin. But if ...[text shortened]... JESUS CHRIST, spoke about living Holy. All Christians are bound by THE WORD OF GOD to live Holy.

Does the verb 'believe' as used in John 3:16 have a perfect or progressive aspect?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thanks. I agree that its dangerous to take words out of context and to pick and choose sections that suit your style. I also accept that there is a several requirements for salvation - belief, baptism, accepting Christ and good works.

Now what my original contention is the apparent way current Christian religions downplay and often ignore Matt 25 and ot ...[text shortened]... Old Testatment at that time) I guess he would have said so very clearly .. don't you think so ?

Have you ever asked yourself, Why did the Jews and the unbelievers not believe CHRIST?
Why in this day and time, in the vastness of undestanding of the WORD OF GOD, why it is Rejected?
Even go back to the Beginning with Adam. Why did Adam reject THE WORD OF GOD, and he knew better?
Why did Lucifer rebell in Heaven?

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's rather absurd for you to quote Matthew 5:18 right after a post where you said that Jesus' words in Matthew 25 were no longer applicable after his ascension. The main focus of a true "Christian" would have to be on the actual words of Christ.

Isn't it obvious that the two verses are related? Jesus was talking about the law, as is Romans. The law was fulfilled. Do you see the Epistles as irrelevant?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The whole subject of the bible from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 22:21 is Jesus Christ.
Matt 5:18
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle[b] will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
(NKJ)

Rom 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believe ...[text shortened]... rtant, including the gospels. But this does not make four books relevant and the rest irevelant.[/b]

No .. I am not saying that the rest of the Bible is unimportant or irrelevant. I beleive the entire Bible but I believe in placing a bit more importance on Christ's teachings. He is the judge and he laid down the rules. He also said very clearly to follow Him. Paul and the other apostles said certain things but the interpretation of their teachings cannot and should not contradict what Christ clearly said.

Originally posted by blindfaith101
Have you ever asked yourself, Why did the Jews and the unbelievers not believe CHRIST?
Why in this day and time, in the vastness of undestanding of the WORD OF GOD, why it is Rejected?
Even go back to the Beginning with Adam. Why did Adam reject THE WORD OF GOD, and he knew better?
Why did Lucifer rebell in Heaven?

I guess because of the same reason why, if Christ were to appear now many Christians would not recognise Him. Because many things are hidden from men's eyes.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The whole subject of the bible from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 22:21 is Jesus Christ.
Matt 5:18
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle[b] will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
(NKJ)

Rom 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believe ...[text shortened]... rtant, including the gospels. But this does not make four books relevant and the rest irevelant.[/b]

From GENESIS 1:1- REVELATIONS 22:21 is all about JESUS CHRIST.
JOHN 1:1-4
Did not JESUS not tell satan: But he answered and said, It is written, Man shal not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the Mouth of God. MATTHEW 4:4

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Do you think that a saved person can become unsaved, and then must get saved again in order to get to heaven? Isn't that just silly?

Question for the Greek scholars: does the verb 'believe' as used in John 3:16 have a perfect or progressive aspect?

If you do not accept all THE WORD OF GOD, how can you be saved. Or are you you looking to be saved, by your standards or GODS.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Isn't it obvious that the two verses are related? Jesus was talking about the law, as is Romans. The law was fulfilled. Do you see the Epistles as irrelevant?

Really? Heaven and Earth passed away?? I must have missed that on FoxNews.

The Epistles are interpretations by men of Christ's message. As such, they cannot be as meaningful as Christ's own words. The fact that Paul and others claim to be speaking with as much authority as Jesus doesn't prove they are.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Really? Heaven and Earth passed away?? I must have missed that on FoxNews.

The Epistles are interpretations by men of Christ's message. As such, they cannot be as meaningful as Christ's own words. The fact that Paul and others claim to be speaking with as much authority as Jesus doesn't prove they are.

I think this the crux of the problem. Christ's words are difficult to follow. Many have become disillusioned with His teachings and with Pauls teachings when they find out that they are called upon to help, give, sacrifice, love others, turn the other cheek. Its not an easy calling.

Could that be a reason why Christianity has gone to such great lengths to find alternative teachings that give then an avenue of escape ?

Originally posted by no1marauder
This is, again, the absurd claim that Jesus' discussion of Judgment Day is a parable. The parables in Matthew 25; that of the foolish bridesmaids and the ungrateful servant are A) Clearly identified as such; and B) Clearly impart lessons regarding Judgment Day. The first is that you don't know when you might die and thus your obligation to do good can ...[text shortened]... t as a parable because it clashes with ideas expressed by Paul and others, borders on blasphemy.

When the Son of Man come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he shall sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate one them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
MATTHEW 25:31,32
Clearly speaks of judgement, as HE teaches in other lessons as well.
The problem is that there are those that donot accept JESUS CHRIST. Nor accept anything HE says, that does not fit in what they believe.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why don't you try it, BF101 rather than insisting his explicit description of Judgment Day and the requirements for salvation is a parable?

Every word that THE WORD OF GOD, has I believe. GOD has spoken of Judgement throughout THE WORD. GOD will prove to you, Himself, that Judgement is real.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Does the verb 'believe' as used in John 3:16 have a perfect or progressive aspect?

Why not accept THE WORD, for what it says?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I guess because of the same reason why, if Christ were to appear now many Christians would not recognise Him. Because many things are hidden from men's eyes.

You are right, many would reject CHRIST today. Could it also be that many things are ignored?

Originally posted by blindfaith101
Why not accept THE WORD, for what it says?

I don't know what it says without knowing the verb's aspect.

Does the verse indicate that whoever believes, in the sense of whoever has believed at least one time, will be saved? (Like, "whosoever buys a movie ticket gets to stay in the theater"; one doesn't have to continually rebuy throughout the movie.)

Or does it indicate that a person who believes habitually throughout his life, without fail, until the time of death is saved?

Or does it indicate that a person who believes at the instant of death will be saved, regardless of his belief habit throughout life?

Or does it indicate that a person who believes intermittently throughout life, but happens to believe at the time of death, will be saved?

Or does it mean something else?

How can you deem something to be true if you don't even know what it is claiming?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think this the crux of the problem. Christ's words are difficult to follow. Many have become disillusioned with His teachings and with Pauls teachings when they find out that they are called upon to help, give, sacrifice, love others, turn the other cheek. Its not an easy calling.

Could that be a reason why Christianity has gone to such great lengths to find alternative teachings that give then an avenue of escape ?

CHRIST'S WORDS, are not difficult to follow. They seem simple enough. Man has chosen to complicate THE WORD OF GOD.
Which only leads to everlasting damnation.