Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke My opening post was intentionally contentious to inspire debate. I obviously didn't expect theists to take my direction to 'put aside' their belief in the divine inspiration of the bible. I was obviously presenting my case from an atheist's perspective.
Discussions in another thread about homosexuality is perhaps one example of how moral values from the bible are out of touch with modern sentiment and understanding.
I understand your point. But once you're an atheist, I don't see why it's even necessary to point to failings in the Bible. If you're doing it to try to show theists that it's not divinely inspired, that's another issue.
Originally posted by sh76 But if the Bible is not divinely inspired, then it's useless as a behavioral or legal guide.
I find certain adages in the Bible useful as behavioral guides, such as,
-Be slow to anger and slow to take offense
-Be kind to others and forgive easily
-Don't hold grudges
-think on things that have virtue, or are noble, or of good report
...etc.
Lack of divine inspiration would not diminish their usefulness whatsoever.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem I find certain adages in the Bible useful as behavioral guides, such as,
-Be slow to anger and slow to take offense
-Be kind to others and forgive easily
-Don't hold grudges
-think on things that have virtue, or are noble, or of good report
...etc.
Lack of divine inspiration would not diminish their usefulness whatsoever.
You find it useful only when and insofar as you agree with it. Kind of like praising a stopped clock for being right twice a day.
Originally posted by sh76 I understand your point. But once you're an atheist, I don't see why it's even necessary to point to failings in the Bible. If you're doing it to try to show theists that it's not divinely inspired, that's another issue.
Personally, my focus here is not to challenge theists about the divinely inspired nature of the bible. (If for no other reason than it's an area they are unlikely to give ground on, and I respect that). However, if a theist's starting point is that the bible is divinely inspired it is not unreasonable to point towards apparent failings and contradictions and seek explanation. (As the God they worship is an infallible God). This is not done out of malice, but out of an interest in the subject, even if only on an academic level.
When I have finished writing a chapter in a story, my wife invariably acts as proof reader and highlights inconsistencies in the plot line, things that contradict or seem confused. Again, she doesn't do this out of malice and her feedback is useful in understanding what's been written. (Do not tell her this!) - In a similar vain, the Ghost is a self appointed proof reader of the bible and seeks, indirectly, to let God know that some of the things he has written need a rethink.
Originally posted by sh76 You find it useful only when and insofar as you agree with it. Kind of like praising a stopped clock for being right twice a day.
No, that's too simplistic and cynical.
If the Bible was simply telling me things I already believed in / knew, I wouldn't find it poignant or memorable.
Take the bit about focusing on the good. My tendency is to play the part of the critic. Fault-finding, in the short term, can be very gratifying.
For a long time, I didn't think any special effort to focus on good was needed. But experience has shown that focusing only on the negative comes at a price. I struggle with depression.
So I need verses like that to remind me to fight against certain tendencies. That's what makes them useful.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Personally, my focus here is not to challenge theists about the divinely inspired nature of the bible. (If for no other reason than it's an area they are unlikely to give ground on, and I respect that). However, if a theist's starting point is that the bible is divinely inspired it is not unreasonable to point towards apparent failings and contradict ...[text shortened]... le and seeks, indirectly, to let God know that some of the things he has written need a rethink.
"vein"... "In a similar vein". Vain is something else entirely.
My fee for proofreading is a rather spartan 1200 pounds sterling. 🙂
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem No, that's too simplistic and cynical.
If the Bible was simply telling me things I already believed in / knew, I wouldn't find it poignant or memorable.
Take the bit about focusing on the good. My tendency is to play the part of the critic. Fault-finding, in the short term, can be very gratifying.
For a long time, I didn't think any special e ...[text shortened]... erses like that to remind me to fight against certain tendencies. That's what makes them useful.
You could read the Bible more regularly. It is a saga of love. A "love letter to the human race", as it were. Sometimes you just have to be direct with those you care about. I had depression issues for years, mainly as a result of dealing with profound PTSD. Learning how to live my life "more abundantly" (and gaining self-confidence through martial-arts training) was key in turning that around.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Discussions in another thread about homosexuality is perhaps one example of how moral values from the bible are out of touch with modern sentiment and understanding.
Maybe modern sentiment and understanding are out of touch with values from the Bible.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke My opening post was intentionally contentious to inspire debate. I obviously didn't expect theists to take my direction to 'put aside' their belief in the divine inspiration of the bible. I was obviously presenting my case from an atheist's perspective.
Discussions in another thread about homosexuality is perhaps one example of how moral values from the bible are out of touch with modern sentiment and understanding.
If it is from the Atheist perspective than who cares one way or another, all views are just
man's views some from the past others from today, all end up dead in the end does it matter?
Originally posted by KellyJay If it is from the Atheist perspective than who cares one way or another, all views are just
man's views some from the past others from today, all end up dead in the end does it matter?
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke You theist chaps are so pessimistic.
Pessimistic? If we are the only scales of good and bad, right and wrong than no matter
what we say or do we are right are we not? Now if some of us disagree with another part
of us, than again one side is still no better than the next it is just us making up our minds
there is no scale beyond what we settle upon. Even after all of that we will all die and
all of our choices and value statements go away with our passing....hard to be happy
about that so without an after life eat, drink, and be merry.
Originally posted by KellyJay Pessimistic? If we are the only scales of good and bad, right and wrong than no matter
what we say or do we are right are we not? Now if some of us disagree with another part
of us, than again one side is still no better than the next it is just us making up our minds
there is no scale beyond what we settle upon. Even after all of that we will all die a ...[text shortened]... h our passing....hard to be happy
about that so without an after life eat, drink, and be merry.
Live for the moment my friend, enjoy the company of those you love, seek to help as many people as you can. Even without religion or God, life is a miracle. We need to help each other make the most of it, no matter how fleeting it is.
A long time ago i worked in a Day Centre for people with dementia. I would run workshops and try to make them as fun as i could. Sadly, because of that horrible condition and the impact it has on short term memory, many would have no recollection of the workshop by the time their bus came to take them home. Did that mean I thought, 'what's the point of making the workshops enjoyable? They're only temporary and soon forgotten.' - No. All of us in that workshop lived for the moment. Indeed, knowing the temporal nature of our time together made it more special, not less.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Live for the moment my friend, enjoy the company of those you love, seek to help as many people as you can. Even without religion or God, life is a miracle. We need to help each other make the most of it, no matter how fleeting it is.
A long time ago i worked in a Day Centre for people with dementia. I would run workshops and try to make them as f ...[text shortened]... moment. Indeed, knowing the temporal nature of our time together made it more special, not less.
We lost our first child to a heart defect 13 days past her first birthday, I get that life is short
and we should make the most of it. I think life is a gift for which I'm very thankful for, even
for the ones we had little time with.
The problem with God
08 Apr '16 16:05
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