1. Standard membervivify
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    08 Sep '17 00:38
    Sonship, that's a different topic for a different day. I do want to say that I admire how civil you are, and I wish more Christians followed your example.
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    08 Sep '17 06:38
    Women needlessly killed in the bible
    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do. Even let other people rape my wife and then kill her thereafter, cut her in 12 pieces and deliver her to other parts of the country.
    Yes, this is to be read in the bible, inspired by God to inspire His followers!

    Read the uplifting story in Judges chapter 19, especially from verse 22 and forward.

    This is one of the most disturbing stories, disgusting stories, and one reason that I never let underage people read the bible unattended. It should be warning sign on the Book!

    If the Bible is considered being morally uplifting - then I am happy that I'm not christian!
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    08 Sep '17 09:031 edit
    Originally posted by @fabianfnas
    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do.


    I completely disagree with that.
    In the Old Testament God gave commandment about approaching the wife while she had her period. The tenor I get from this is that the husband needs self control, He should not be greedy and forceful thinking only of his own pleasure.

    "And you shall not approach a woman as to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleaness." (Lev. 18:19)


    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
    18:1-30 Unlawful marriages and fleshly lusts. - Here is a law against all conformity to the corrupt usages of the heathen. Also laws against incest, against brutal lusts, and barbarous idolatries; and the enforcement of these laws from the ruin of the Canaanites. God here gives moral precepts.


    Matthew Poole's Commentary
    This was not only a ceremonial pollution, but an immorality also, whence it is put amongst gross sins, Ezekiel 18:6. There is also a natural turpitude in this action.


    Ezekiel 22:9-10 strongly suggests that lack of self control in marriage was lewdness

    " ... you have committed lewdness. In you they have uncovered the nakedness of their father; they have humbled women in their uncleaness within you. And one has committed abomination with his neighbor's wife, and another has lewdly defiled his daughter-in-law, and another has humbled his sister, his father's daughter, within you."


    I would take this as God placing unbridled greedy sexual lust with incest in terms of lewdness.
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    08 Sep '17 09:055 edits

    Even let other people rape my wife and then kill her thereafter, cut her in 12 pieces and deliver her to other parts of the country.


    You seem to be referring very sloppily to Judges 19:1-30.
    Are you reading this like a drunk man failing to see that the degradation of the Israelites is what is being recorded ?

    You are not a sober minded reader of the Bible.
    There is a difference in what the Bible teaches for morality and what the Bible records as having happened.

    Not everything that it records has having OCCURRED is an instruction from God to go do the same. This raping of the concubine highlights the corruption that the Israelites had degraded to in the time of the Judges. It is not commandment on how we should behave.


    Yes, this is to be read in the bible, inspired by God to inspire His followers!


    The bigotry is with your misunderstanding of the chapter as a positive model.
    The story is a negative history about the trouble caused by the Sodomical like immorality of the towns people of Gibeah.

    You are so blind as to not see the statements.

    "And while they were making their hearts merry, the men of the city, WORTHLESS MEN, surrounded the house, beating on the door. and they spoke to the master of the house, the old man, saying Bring out the man who went into your house that we may know him. " (Judges 19:22)


    Did you get that? They were "worthless men" acting in excessive lust. The concubine is sent out instead. After the concubine's master cuts up her body to send evidence of the crime to the other Israelite tribes about what the tribe of Benjamin had done. And then it was said -

    "And when everyone saw this, they said, No such thing has ever happened or been seen since the day the children of Israel went up out of he land of Egypt until this day. Consider it, and take counsel and speak." (v.30)



    Read the uplifting story in Judges chapter 19, especially from verse 22 and forward.


    You should read it yourself properly realizing its purpose. The point is how low the Isrealites had sunken into acting like the Canaanites they replaced and the tragedy it caused the whole nation. It is a negative example of what happened when they forsook their God.

    Inspiration of the Bible includes reporting of the sins of people with a view towards pointing to the need of salvation. Your comprehension of those chapters is in a drunken stupor of bigotry.
  5. R
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    08 Sep '17 09:055 edits
    Does this sound like the perpetrators of this crime were being held up as model israelites obedient to the law of God ?

    "Now therefore deliver up the worthless men who are in Gibeah, and we will kill them and put away the evil from Israel. But the Bejaminies would not listen to the voice of thier brothers, the children of Israel." (Judges 20:13)



    This is one of the most disturbing stories, disgusting stories, and one reason that I never let underage people read the bible unattended. It should be warning sign on the Book!


    So as a Christian parent I was discerning about what my kids were able to handle.
    The book of Judges is intended for latter human and spiritual maturity.

    The Bible is one library of books which has to speak to varying levels of spiritual capacity.

    Even to those purely coming to see God and not pick up reasons to be turned off, such a story is helpful. If your intention is to see God, all things in the Bible are pure.

    " All things are pure to the pure; yet to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled." (Titus 1:15)


    Come with a single heart and a pure motive to see God and you will see God in all parts of the Bible. As it stands you are now badly misreading in a perverted way the very intention for which the candid story is told, as a warning. Things CAN get that bad when a people forsake God.

    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do. Even let other people rape my wife and then kill her thereafter, cut her in 12 pieces and deliver her to other parts of the country.


    You didn't tell us what Judges teaches there at all.

    " And the children of Israel did that which was evil in the sight of Jehovah, and they forgot Jehovah their God and served the Baals and the Asheroth." (Judges 2:7)


    The book of Judges is about Israel's repeated cycles of degradation and the saviors God sent them at their repentance.

    American Standard Version (Judges 17:6)
    In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.



    Holman Christian Standard Bible (Judges 21:25)
    In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did whatever he wanted.


    Basically you were turned off because you wanted to be turned off.
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    08 Sep '17 09:55
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Many words but no explanation...
  7. R
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    08 Sep '17 10:161 edit
    Originally posted by @fabianfnas
    Many words but no explanation...
    For you -
    Few words and even greater ignorance.
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    08 Sep '17 10:20
    So let's make this simple for you Fabian

    Where in Judges 19,20 does it say ANYTHING like -

    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do.


    Make your very next post indicate this to me.
  9. R
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    08 Sep '17 10:312 edits
    So because of the rape of the concubine by a lustful mob we do not have God pleased with their "very moral" behavior.

    The long tragic account includes God slaying the offending Benjaminites in discipline through the other horrified tribes.

    Chapter 21 begins with the other tribes making an oath that none of them would EVER give their daughters to a man Benjaminite man. This for what Fabian suggests was their very moral actions in the previous chapters.

    "Now the men of Israel swore in Mizpah, saying, None of us shall give his daughter to a Benjaminite as a wife." (Judges 21:1)


    But Fabian wants us to think God was pleased with their behavior and set it forth as a moral model to follow.
  10. R
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    08 Sep '17 10:33
    Originally posted by @fabianfnas
    Many words but no explanation...
    No words from you yet and no explanation Fabian.
  11. R
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    11 Sep '17 12:35
    Fabianenas -
    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do.


    I'm still waiting for your evidence.
  12. R
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    19 Sep '17 04:11
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Fabianenas -
    Marital rape is not immoral according to the bible, it is a very moral thing to do.


    I'm still waiting for your evidence.
    Fabian ?
    No substantiation of your charge yet.
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    19 Sep '17 05:151 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship to vivify
    The gist of your complaint is that God in the Bible was not right enough. So the deficit has to be made up by His own creations. God needs to learn something from us, whom He created, somehow, more upright than Himself.
    According to your ideology, was your god figure unaware of the fact that 'women bleeding being proof of virginity' was a myth?

    If not, in the context of your ideology, and in the context of the question you are posing about whether your god figure needs "to learn something" from "his own creations", how do you explain your god not foreseeing the fact that he would one day be able to learn something about the virginity myth from people like vivify?

    Was the eventual exposure of that myth something that was unforeseeable to your god?
  14. R
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    22 Sep '17 13:338 edits
    Originally posted by @vivify
    The article linked to is called - The Hymen: Breaking the Myths
    http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2008/12/the-hymen-breaking-the-myths/

    Where in this article is the mention of any passage in the Old Testament ?

    There is no Deuteronomy 13:20 . There are 18 verses in my English translation of Deuteronomy 13.

    Where in the fifteen paragraphs in the article is a reference to the Bible anywhere?

    After the article there are numerous comments made by posters. Could someone point out to me which one of any of those comments made a reference to something in the Bible ?

    I can find no discussion of any Bible passage in the article or numerous comments.
    Did I miss it ?
  15. Standard membervivify
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    22 Sep '17 14:58
    Originally posted by @sonship
    The article linked to is called - [b]The Hymen: Breaking the Myths
    http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2008/12/the-hymen-breaking-the-myths/

    Where in this article is the mention of any passage in the Old Testament ?

    There is no Deuteronomy 13:20 . There are 18 verses in my English translation of Deuteronomy 13.

    Where in the f ...[text shortened]... an find no discussion of any Bible passage in the article or numerous comments.
    Did I miss it ?[/b]
    I told you on the first page of this thread that I made a mistake, and actually meant Deut 22:13-21. You even responded to that post. Why are you asking the same question again?

    Regarding the article, I never said it made any mention of the bible, now did I? I only posted that link as information regarding the hymen/virginity myth, for which the bible commanded women be stoned for.
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