All Hail Jacques Kallis, Best All Rounder

Originally posted by mtthw
Well, the consensus among experts (and I'm not counting myself among them) is that the standard of fast bowling now is nowhere near what it was in the 70s and 80s. How many all-time greats are playing at the moment?

Also, the consensus is that the covered pitches they use nowadays are much easier to play on - compare the number of batsmen who average abov ...[text shortened]... tatistically, I'd agree, he's right up there. But you do have to be careful with statistics.

great points! I would say the 70s and early 80s were the goalden time for true cricket all rounds.

In the 90s Wasif Akram and Chris Cairns NZ were the nearist we come to true all rounders.. but they were still no match for Imran, kapil, Botham and hadlee

Originally posted by boarman
This is quite hard ,so this is my first team.

Based on stats and Favourites.

Ok team 1 of probably a few.


L Hutton
S Gavaskar
D Bradman
R Ponting
V Richards
G Sobers
A Gilchrist
R Hadlee
K Dev
S Warne
G McGrath
K Miller (12th Man)

This team could possibly score 1000 test runs per innings or 500 one day runs.
Bowl opposition out twi ...[text shortened]... pics are always so hard as of the different eras involved,but they do offer good talking point.

Based on players i have seen 'live' in test matches

1.Boycott
2.Gavasker
3.richards
4.tendulkar
5.miandad
6.botham
7.imran
8.kapil dev
9. Gilcrist or Ian healy (had to pick!)
10.hardlee
11. Muli

12. Martin Crowe

Originally posted by spurs73
O please. what you talking about!

The best TEST all rounder (not in any particular order) would have to be IMRAN KHAN, IAN BOTHAM, GARY SOBERS, KAPIL DEV, RICHARD HARDLEE.

no one comes anywhere near them in the record books.

I dont know how old you are Crowley, but if you had seen the above players play in real life you would know what i mean. I ha ...[text shortened]... ioned with the above. But no way is he a better allrounder then Imran Khan, Kepil dev and Botham

Go check the stats, Sparky, Kallis and Sobers are in a league of their own. Nobody else is even close to them.

Just because you saw some guys play, they are reckoned better players than Kallis? You seem to be falling into the same trap as TD - making emotional ties to players from the 'olden days'.
Imran Khan is a joke compared to Kallis, Beefy and Kapil are definitely closer to the mark, depending on how you weight bowling/batting, but I still think Kallis puts dust in their eyes, especially if you take ODI stats into consideration.
Sobers is Kallis' only rival on overall best all rounder - if only tests are used to measure, because Garry didn't play ODIs.


Remember, Kallis is the ONLY PLAYER to ever score over 9000 runs AND take more than 200 wickets in both forms of cricket.
Watch this space - he is going to easily score 10,000+ runs and take 300+ wickets in both and I can't see any other current player getting close to that...

That, in itself, puts him above any other player to have ever played cricket in my book.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Okay Stats from the ICC:

Current Top Batsmen:
http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/batting/rankings.php
Kallis #2 after Ponting

Current top bowlers:
http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/bowling/rankings.php
Kallis #22

Current ICC all-rounder ranking: http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/all-rounder/rankings.php
Kallis top today..

The ICC Best ever ...[text shortened]... eness.

edit I'm done talking to this thread If you want kallis for Pope it's fine by me...

Seriously, what is your point with your references?

From the top of the ranking page:
Players make the all-time list by sustaining excellent form over a prolonged period. The ratings shown are the highest points totals these players have attained and no player is allowed to appear on the list more than once.

All that list shows is good, constant performance by a player over an averaged time.

So, Kallis isn't on the top 100 bowlers list. Neither is Sobers.
Kallis is 16, Sobers is 6. Sobers is only 17 points above Kallis.

Originally posted by spurs73
Based on players i have seen 'live' in test matches

1.Boycott
2.Gavasker
3.richards
4.tendulkar
5.miandad
6.botham
7.imran
8.kapil dev
9. Gilcrist or Ian healy (had to pick!)
10.hardlee
11. Muli

12. Martin Crowe

Yawn.

Why would anybody put Adam Gilchrist in a 'best of' test side? Maybe ODIs, but even Kumar Sangakkara currently is a better test keeper/batsmen.

Originally posted by Crowley
Yawn.

Why would anybody put Adam Gilchrist in a 'best of' test side? Maybe ODIs, but even Kumar Sangakkara currently is a better test keeper/batsmen.

You have to be joking here, right? Right?
For my money, number of runs and wickets don't count because they played different numbers of Tests. If you really want to compare, use something like:
Test average batting/bowling strike rate
Kallis 57.7/66.4
Sobers 57.7/91.9
Dev 31.1/63.9
Botham 33.54/56.9
It certainly looks to me that Kallis is the most all-round of the all-rounders. Agreed, he's the least exciting of the four, but he sure gets the job done.

Originally posted by buffalobill

It certainly looks to me that Kallis is the most all-round of the all-rounders. Agreed, he's the least exciting of the four, but he sure gets the job done.

Uhm, that's what I've been saying all along... Did you reply to the wrong post?

Does anyone else think it's ironic that a New Zealander is giving me flack about this, when Kallis just scored 349 runs, took 5 wickets and a couple of good catches in a 2 test series against the Black Caps.

LOL, he would probably have scored more runs on his own than the Black Caps could manage in 4 innings if only he got a chance to bat again.


What a great all-rounder!

Originally posted by Crowley
Uhm, that's what I've been saying all along... Did you reply to the wrong post?

Two separate points here: One about Sangakkara and the other about the four leading all rounders.
Does this now make sense?

Originally posted by buffalobill
Two separate points here: One about Sangakkara and the other about the four leading all rounders.
Does this now make sense?

OK, just to be clear:
I don't think Kumar is the best keeper ever, he is just a better TEST keeper and batsman than Gilchrist at the moment.

Originally posted by Crowley
OK, just to be clear:
I don't think Kumar is the best keeper ever, he is just a better TEST keeper and batsman than Gilchrist at the moment.

It wasn't a team "at the moment" though, was it? Even Boycott wouldbn't claim Boycott was one of the best test openers around right now 🙂

Originally posted by Crowley
[b]Go check the stats, Sparky, Kallis and Sobers are in a league of their own. Nobody else is even close to them.

i enjoy reading your posts Crowley, but to say kallis is better then Imran LOL!

One important think you have missed is that we now have 'test'
teams like Bangledesh and Zimbabawa.. for gooness sake!

When Imran, botham and kapil played , all test teams were strong. Ok NZ and SL were not as good as they are now, but they were still better then what Bangledesh and Zim are now.

Please copuld you check how many runs and wickets Kallis has taken off Bangledesh adn Zim over the course of this career

Originally posted by spurs73
i enjoy reading your posts Crowley, but to say kallis is better then Imran LOL!

One important think you have missed is that we now have 'test'
teams like Bangledesh and Zimbabawa.. for gooness sake!

When Imran, botham and kapil played , all test teams were strong. Ok NZ and SL were not as good as they are now, but they were still better then what Bang ...[text shortened]... w many runs and wickets Kallis has taken off Bangledesh adn Zim over the course of this career

Not that it should matter:
Of Kallis' almost 9200 test runs, less than 900 runs and only 28 wickets came compliments of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Still Kallis outshines Khan by a country mile.

Originally posted by Crowley
Not that it should matter:
Of Kallis' almost 9200 test runs, less than 900 runs and only 28 wickets came compliments of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Still Kallis outshines Khan by a country mile.

I agree that kallis is the best test allrounder in cricket now and is one of the best test allrounds of all time.

But he is not a 'country mile' better the Imran Khan

Originally posted by Crowley
Yawn.

Why would anybody put Adam Gilchrist in a 'best of' test side? Maybe ODIs, but even Kumar Sangakkara currently is a better test keeper/batsmen.

Sangakkara isnt even good enough to keep for Sri Lanka at moment.

For the best way to work out a who's who ,maybe we should look at the stats against individual nations.
Just take Murali into this,he has played a lot more tests against Bangaladesh and Zimbabwe than Warne and taken so many more wickets against these two sides,than Warne ever did.
Put up Kallis's stats against the individual nations and lets see what he's got.

From Your numerous posts about rugby and now cricket you are a one eyed SA Mr Crowley.