Arsene Wenger Puts The "Arse" in Arsenal

Originally posted by Palynka
I love it when you simpletons analyze football through the same old stereotypes.

At least I don't try to credibly pass off my soccer facts from "Wikipedia".

The EPL is the Italian and Spanish retirement league. The truly world class players never head to England first (apart from Henry), their first stop is La Liga and Serie A, then when they are winding down their career and hit 31 or so, they head to the EPL.

Originally posted by blade68
Fact:
Manchester United are the largest supported football club in the world.
Take your Barca and Real shirts and shove 'em up your jacksie!

Thats not fact. Thats just your opinion.

Originally posted by Esoteric
At least I don't try to credibly pass off my soccer facts from "Wikipedia".

That's right. You don't even provide a source.

Wikipedia is a good default source when I couldn't be bothered to look for other ones. Until you provide a more credible source that says the opposite I'll just keep smirking at your ignorance and at your continuous stereotyping of English club football.

Do you want to dispute that the Premiership is the most watched league in the world? Provide a source better than Wikipedia then. Your stereotyped opinion just doesn't cut it.

Originally posted by Palynka
That's right. You don't even provide a source.

Wikipedia is a good default source when I couldn't be bothered to look for other ones. Until you provide a more credible source that says the opposite I'll just keep smirking at your ignorance and at your continuous stereotyping of English club football.

Do you want to dispute that the Premiership is the m ...[text shortened]... Provide a source better than Wikipedia then. Your stereotyped opinion just doesn't cut it.

First of all, I am wasn't trying to pass off any facts. Just common sense. La Liga and Serie A is THE 1st choice for all top tier soccer players. We are not disputing the popularity of a league, we are talking about the calibre of players and competition within a league.

Now it is time for facts.

Ballon D'or winners for last 10 years
2006 Fabio Cannavaro - Real Madrid
2005 Ronaldinho - FC Barcelona
2004 Andriy Shevchenko - A.C. Milan
2003 Pavel Nedvěd - Juventus F.C.
2002 Ronaldo - Real Madrid
2001 Michael Owen - Liverpool F.C.
2000 Luís Figo - Real Madrid
1999 Rivaldo - FC Barcelona
1998 Zinedine Zidane - Juventus F.C.
1997 Ronaldo - Internazionale Milano FC

By league
Spanish - 5
Italy - 4
English - 1


In the last 38 years there has been only 1 Ballon D'or winner from the English league.


Last ten winners of FIFA world player of the year
2005 - Ronaldinho, Barcelona
2004 - Ronaldinho, Barcelona
2003 - Zidane, Real Madrid
2002 - Ronaldo, Real Madrid
2001 - Figo, Real Madrid
2000 - Zidane, Juventus
1999 - Rivaldo, Barcelona
1998 - Zidane, Juventus
1997 - Ronaldo, Barcelona
1996 - Ronaldo, Barcelona
1995 - Weah, AC Milan

By League
Spain - 8
Italy - 2


Most Champions League Winners
Real Madrid - 9 (runners up 3 times)
AC Milan - 6 (runners up 4 times)
Liverpool - 5 (runners up once)
Bayern Munich - 4 (runners up 3 times)
Ajax - 4 (runners up 2 times)
Benfica - 2 (runners up 5 times)
Juventus - 2 (runners up 5 times)
Barcelona - 2 (runners up 3 times)
Inter - 2 (runners up twice)
Man U - 2 (runners up nil)

By League
Spanish - 11 wins, 6 runners up, total of 17 finals appearance
Italian - 10 wins, 11 runners up, total of 21 finals appearance
English - 7 wins, 1 runners up, total of 8 finals appearance


Last 10 winners of the Champions League.
2006 - Barcelona
2005 - Liverpool
2004 - FC Porto
2003 - AC Milan
2002 - Real Madrid
2001 - Bayern Munich
2000 - Real Madrid
1999 - Manchester United
1998 - Real Madrid
1997 - Borrusia Dortmund
1996 - Juventus



The facts don't look too good for you now do they. How's that smirk going?

Originally posted by Esoteric
First of all, I am wasn't trying to pass off any facts. Just common sense. La Liga and Serie A is THE 1st choice for all top tier soccer players. We are not disputing the popularity of a league, we are talking about the calibre of players and competition within a league.

Now it is time for facts.

Ballon D'or winners for last 10 years
2006 Fabio Can Juventus



The facts don't look too good for you now do they. How's that smirk going?

Ah yeah, but c'mon people don't like to watch winning teams and amazing player, they love the pointless english fighting spirit.

Remind me of the good all days in Bangkok, when a match involving the English squad was on tv for the world cup, the street was full of english and all the Thai bar staff around had painted union jack flags on their cheeks and wearing the english t-shirt for that night only, just to pretend they love english football, but really because they were so afraid that the english supporters would break the bar if they lost.

I guess that gives a great feeling to UK supporters that they are so loved in the rest of the world 😀

Nop lads, people don't like you, they just wear the shirt not to get into a fight - sorry to break the dream

It aint about a country, even if it's the usual spanish/italian that wins the Champions League anyway, and in most case scenario there are only spanish/italian clubs from the semi-finals. I mean the Spanish team is an absolutely nothing, but yeah Real or Barca, thats what brings an audience worldwide.

Why on earth do you think a club like Madrid will buy such a crappy lad as Beckam if it wasn't to bring new audience worldwide?

And to finish Esoteric list: how many English lads have ever play in Seria A or Liga?

Originally posted by Esoteric
First of all, I am wasn't trying to pass off any facts. Just common sense. La Liga and Serie A is THE 1st choice for all top tier soccer players. We are not disputing the popularity of a league, we are talking about the calibre of players and competition within a league.

Now it is time for facts.

Ballon D'or winners for last 10 years
2006 Fabio Can ...[text shortened]... Juventus



The facts don't look too good for you now do they. How's that smirk going?

Nice facts they paint a solid story.

However Wegner's quotes were not so stupid. The best players in the world play in the champions league. Therefore their performance in this competition should carry more weight.

Obviously when analysing total European victories it is important to note that English Clubs were persona non-grata for a few years and struggled when readmitted.

Wegner knows more about football than any of us.

Originally posted by invigorate
Obviously when analysing total European victories it is important to note that English Clubs were persona non-grata for a few years and struggled when readmitted.

So will be Juventus and other Italian fellows that ran away...to Madrid.

Originally posted by invigorate
Wegner knows more about football than any of us.

Yep.
The work he did with Monaco to start with was amazing!

Henri is the most enjoyable player to watch, no doubt about it.
Aint the best, but then aint really anyone outstanding right now neither after Zidane.

Originally posted by Esoteric
First of all, I am wasn't trying to pass off any facts. Just common sense. La Liga and Serie A is THE 1st choice for all top tier soccer players. We are not disputing the popularity of a league, we are talking about the calibre of players and competition within a league.

Now it is time for facts.

Ballon D'or winners for last 10 years
2006 Fabio Can ...[text shortened]... Juventus



The facts don't look too good for you now do they. How's that smirk going?

The smirk's fine, considering you didn't post any relevant facts regarding the Premiership being the most watched league in the world.

We are not disputing the popularity of a league, we are talking about the calibre of players and competition within a league.

My wiki-facts were about the popularity. Try searching if I said anything about the quality difference between the leagues.

I only said that your view that the Premiership is about long balls to strikers is clearly of someone who still lives in stereotype land. And it is. Quoting all-time historical facts only reinforces this point.

Originally posted by Palynka
you didn't post any relevant facts regarding the Premiership being the most watched league in the world.

so where could those stas be found? I dunno.

I am ready to admit that you were right, but I mean wiki... 😞

Like I said from my perception of the world from experience - tons of countries where didnt see one single Premiership shirt and found even in the middle of nothing some "Raul" one, even in Lao for christ sake! - , it looks astonishing but eh why not!

Originally posted by Jee
so where could those stas be found? I dunno.

I am ready to admit that you were right, but I mean wiki... 😞

Like I said from my perception of the world from experience - tons of countries where didnt see one single Premiership shirt and found even in the middle of nothing some "Raul" one, even in Lao for christ sake! - , it looks astonishing but eh why not!

My perception is the opposite.

In fact, obviously in South America 'La Liga' dominates, but in Europe, Africa and South-East Asia (including China) it's the Premiership that is the most watched.

Originally posted by Palynka
I only said that your view that the Premiership is about long balls to strikers is clearly of someone who still lives in stereotype land. And it is. Quoting all-time historical facts only reinforces this point.

I am not the one calling people simpletons and their views stereotypical whilst quoting and hiding behind wikipedia now am I?...

Originally posted by invigorate
However Wegner's quotes were not so stupid. The best players in the world play in the champions league. Therefore their performance in this competition should carry more weight.

Fair enough point.

Originally posted by Esoteric
I am not the one calling people simpletons and their views stereotypical whilst quoting and hiding behind wikipedia now am I?...

'Hiding' behind Wikipedia? Like I said, provide a source that says otherwise and we'll discuss.

Shouting at the wind saying that Wikipedia isn't a valid source whilst not providing a 'better' one is...well... pathetic.

You described English football through old stereotypes. That's why I called you a simpleton.

Originally posted by Esoteric

Most Champions League Winners
Real Madrid - 9 (runners up 3 times)
AC Milan - 6 (runners up 4 times)
Liverpool - 5 (runners up once)
Bayern Munich - 4 (runners up 3 times)
Ajax - 4 (runners up 2 times)
Benfica - 2 (runners up 5 times)
Juventus - 2 (runners up 5 times)
Barcelona - 2 (runners up 3 times)
Inter - 2 (runners up twice)
Man U - 2 (run ...[text shortened]... als appearance


The facts don't look too good for you now do they. How's that smirk going?

The "facts" as you call them are incorrect.

Notts Forest (twice) and Aston Villa were both European Champions.

Originally posted by Palynka
'Hiding' behind Wikipedia? Like I said, provide a source that says otherwise and we'll discuss.

Shouting at the wind saying that Wikipedia isn't a valid source whilst not providing a 'better' one is...well... pathetic.

You described English football through old stereotypes. That's why I called you a simpleton.

I describe English Football how I see it. If you can't handle that and resort to idiotic insults, well then, that says more about you than me.

End of discussion.