best english football team

Originally posted by mtthw
Much as I like Carlton Palmer, that's not really remotely true. Reflected by Gerrard & Lampard's combined 128 caps (27 goals). against Palmer's 18 and Thomas' 9.

That certainly reflects something. Thomas and Palmer (oft chastised) only took up 27 caps to achieve very little. Gerrard and Lampard have been a waste of the same space (usually) to also contribute very little.

Both sets of players have achieved the ignomy of NOT taking England to a major championship. In fact lampard came in after injury and replaced a player that may have done.

Originally posted by blade68
Come off it Hop?

Thomas and Palmer better than Lampard and Gerrard?

Your comments aren't in any swayed by the fact that Thomas was an Eagle obviously!!

🙄

I am not suggesting they are. It is just that Gerrard and Lampard shine for their clubs, and not for England. Thomas and Palmer were stallwarts for their clubs at the time, that is why they were picked.

In the case of Thomas, ask yourself how good a player might be if he is the driving force and captain of an unfashionable team that finishes 3rd in the top tier and takes Man utd to a Cup Final replay. This is without the benefit of having foreign internationals playing alongside him to help cover up his deficiencies week in/week out.

Then you can see why they were picked, because they were the best available for selection at the time. Barry´s performances when called up showed that Lampard wasn´t even the best available to McLaren, but he was picked more for who he played for, despite the fact that it was proven time and again that you couldn´t fit both him and Gerrard into the same team.

2008 training methods and the influence of foreign talent, wages and hype are factors that are very different to the Thomas/Palmer era. 1991/92 was pre Premier. I would argue that on a relative basis Gerrard and Lampard are not proven better players. If they were playing now for Boro or Villa, they wouldn´t have half as many caps.

Originally posted by blade68
Come off it Hop?

Thomas and Palmer better than Lampard and Gerrard?

Your comments aren't in any swayed by the fact that Thomas was an Eagle obviously!!

🙄

And I am just suggesting that the two players mentioned are easy targets and far from the worse to put on an England shirt. Palace´s Andy Gray would certainly be a candidate.

I reiterate, England never lost a game that Thomas played in.

Originally posted by Hopster
I would argue that on a relative basis Gerrard and Lampard are not proven better players. If they were playing now for Boro or Villa, they wouldn´t have half as many caps.

That's plain wrong.

Gerrard is one of the best players in the world. He's at Liverpool and not Villa or Boro because they deemed him good enough to stay there and not ship him out.

Lampard is at Chelsea because they bought him from WHU after seeing that he was good enough to play for another of the PL's best sides.

If either were at Villa or Boro now it would be because they'd not been deemed good enough to play for Liverpool or Chelsea - hence they wouldn't be as good a player as they are and therefore would almost certainly have won less caps for England. The fact that they are at Liverpool and Chelsea has made them better players than they would have been at Villa or Boro.

They don't seem to play well together, but then neither (esp Gerrard) really plays in the same role as they do for their clubs - both of which would beat England.

Geoff Thomas and Carlton Palmer won few caps because they weren't good enough. There was a time when they may have been amongst the best that were available but they were not in the same class as Lampard or Gerrard.

Get off your "Big 4" soapbox, it's clouding your memory and judgement.

Again, I feel it is right to defend against the players mentioned being easy targets.

At the time they were good enough to play for England, so they played for England. Because they came from unfashionable clubs it is easy to say they weren´t good players. Southgate, Wright and Martyn didn´t win a cap when they played for Palace (in fact Wright and Martyn got England B caps). The moment they moved to other clubs they were littered with Caps. Doesn´t make them better players, I would suggest they were better players when the standard around them wasn´t that high and they had to carry the team.

It´s insulting.

How many caps did Phil Neville win. And how many caps did Wes Brown win. Many of these caps were won when said players couldn´t make the first team or even bench at Man Utd. There´s two candidates for worse ever England players right there. Picked for who they play for and not how good they are.

Soapbox is good enough if people are blinded by the truth. Have Inter come in for Lampard yet. Or have they coolled on the idea?

I believe who a player represents at club level does have a bearing on how many caps they get, it's a good point Hop.

Tony Currie was undoubtedly one of the classiest footballers of his era, but only picked up half a dozen caps whilst with 'unfashionable' Sheffield United... his other dozen caps arrived when he moved up the M1.

If he'd played for Spurs/West Ham/Arsenal at the time, it's fair to say he'd have collected 50+ caps... his biggest rivals at the time were Alan Hudson (who was 'unfashionable' Stoke City), and Stan Bowles (although whilst playing for a fashionable London team, did come with his own brand of baggage!)

A lot of flair players in the 70´s, yet we failed miserably to qualify for two World Cups and had the ignomy of the Scots stuffing it down our throats in 1978.

Originally posted by Hopster
A lot of flair players in the 70´s, yet we failed miserably to qualify for two World Cups and had the ignomy of the Scots stuffing it down our throats in 1978.

It's surprising how badly England did in the mid/late 70's considering the side was based around 6 or 7 Liverpool players (who at the time were THE major European force!)

The Revie era was a sham... very forgettable.

Players like Emilyn Hughes, Thompson, Phil Neal, Clemence, Shilton,
etc.

Certainly the worse ever England manager.

I'm really enjoying this thread. I don't have sky tv and have lost touch over the last ten years so love to catch passionate fans slugging out the grit of footy which remains in my English (So'ton) blood..

Curious I check around best 11 looking for the last ten years.. Lampard and Terry seem to figure very prominently.

Should there be more English in this world eleven???
http://soccer.suite101.com/article.cfm/fantasy_football_club_soccer

The one that stuffed Germany

the team now adays is all right but cappelo is a bit strict. anyone agree

Originally posted by GRAVY 5
the team now adays is all right but cappelo is a bit strict. anyone agree

Is he Cappelo of achieving the desired results,

what do you mean?

Originally posted by eatmybishop
who would you say - apart from 1966 - was the best english football team...

i would go for....

euro 1996
world cup 1990

most dissapointing team were world cup 2006... could and should have won

To get back to the point
The best England team was the 1970 squad
Todays teams are not fit to tie their shoelaces
Beckham Lampard Gerard couldn't compare